Early Long Land Pattern Brown Bess Lock, Mistake and Correction.

[FlinterNick]

Working on a brown Bess lock, I’ve made many of these over the years and they’re generally not too complicated to assemble. 


I wanted to share this one because of a mistake i had made while bottom tapping the tumbler. In short the bottoming tap broke. I don’t have a EDM cutter and i did not desire to chew up the hole with a carbide bit and id on’t have any replacement tumblers laying around.  After a heat up and slow cooldown to the tumbler  I decided to drill straight through the tumbler with a #28 carbide bit, this enabled me to maintain the desired thread pitch. Threaded the tumbler starlight through from end to end.

Just a note on very early locks with no bridles i drill straight through the tumblers and weld up the back once treaded. (Dog locks, early musket locks etc).

To correct the lost arbor used a method from my restoration work. I turned a new arbor from 1/4 stock, and countered it down to an appropriate diameter and threaded into the back of the tumbler then I welded the seams 360 degrees around. Tested the tensile strength of the weld and it’s good. Getting a nice fit between the welded arbor and bridle presented new issue, the welded seam was just high enough to obstruct the inside of the bridle by a few thousandths, easily fixed with a little more turning on my lathe and with slight 45 degrees around counter sink on the inside of the bridle.

[smart dog]

Hi Nick,
Nice fix!  I have 2 pattern 1742s part sets coming so I will be going down that same road very soon.  Your method for drilling through bridleless tumblers makes sense.  No worries about tapping a blind hole.  Thanks for sharing.

dave

[wvcruffler]

Is this a parts casting from TRS? Great solution on the repair. Can keep everything nice and square. I have an Indian English lock with a big wallowed out lock plate hole that is also out of round. I had considered drilling out the axle through the cock and then doing something quite similar to replace the axle then ream the lock plate for a round, better fitting hole. The lock is a bit of $#@* so it wouldn't be harming anything really. I also have a 1742 lock set and parts set ordered so please post anything else you run into here!! Also turning my own screws for the first time so that's an added level of skill build for me. Cheers!

Dr Phil

[smart dog]

Hi Dr Phil,
Does you India-made lock look like this?



I true up the tumbler and tumbler post and then I thread solid steel rod into the tumbler hole after tapping it.  I slightly countersink both sides of the hole and peen the steel rod into the countersinks on both sides.  Then I take my oxy/acetylene torch and melt the blob of peened metal to fuse with the lock plate.  File it flush and then drill it for the tumbler hole.  I usually undersize the hole and using reamers and lapping compound, fit the tumbler in precisely.  An issue we often run into with India-made locks is the lock plate too thick and the shoulder on the tumbler post does not clear the outside of the lock plate.  When the flintcock is tightened down on the tumbler it binds against the lock plate.  The fix you describe would be a good way to deal with that by making a longer tumbler post.  I don't do this work anymore because fixing these locks is more costly than what the client paid for the gun and it takes too much of our time away from other work.

dave

[Bob Gerard]

That’s very skillful work, Nick. Hats off to you!

[FlinterNick]

Hi Nick,
Nice fix!  I have 2 pattern 1742s part sets coming so I will be going down that same road very soon.  Your method for drilling through bridleless tumblers makes sense.  No worries about tapping a blind hole.  Thanks for sharing.

dave

j

Thanks Dave ! These are probably of my favorite locks to build. I would love to have seen the jigs they used to make thousands of these. I imagine they made from some type of set up with bow drills.

[smart dog]

Hi Nick,
I believe they had simple drill presses run by bows or perhaps hand cranks. If you think about the great clock and watch makers in the 17th and 18th centuries, they had quite precise tools and machines to do that work.  I am sure lock makers probably scaled some of the designs up a bit to use on locks.   

dave

[FlinterNick]

Is this a parts casting from TRS? Great solution on the repair. Can keep everything nice and square. I have an Indian English lock with a big wallowed out lock plate hole that is also out of round. I had considered drilling out the axle through the cock and then doing something quite similar to replace the axle then ream the lock plate for a round, better fitting hole. The lock is a bit of $#@* so it wouldn't be harming anything really. I also have a 1742 lock set and parts set ordered so please post anything else you run into here!! Also turning my own screws for the first time so that's an added level of skill build for me. Cheers!

Dr Phil

Hi Phil

Yes it’s a TRS dating set. 542A set.

As Dave showed the Indian made Locks are not designed well and are generally out of proportion with thick plates and integral / internal parts that are too small.  They’re difficult and time consuming to fix, consuming a lot of time and material costs and are not worth the investment. I share Dave’s position and I do not work on them anymore because of this.

Welding and re-drilling as Dave suggested is about the best option, or you could attempt to make a bushing for the tumbler, but the problem with the bushing is the tumbler is asymmetrical to the plate size. One of the only times i will. Say this but an overly strong mainspring is necessary on these locks as the cock and plate grind against each other.



 

[FlinterNick]

That’s very skillful work, Nick. Hats off to you!

Thanks Bob !

[FlinterNick]

Put the sear spring on today, fitting the spring to the sear before tempering.

[FlinterNick]

Tumbler and Bridle after shot peening with 1mm stainless steel shot and 240 powdered grit for just 25 min on a slow setting.  This burnishes the parts, removes small burrs and smoothens out the already polished surface while doing some additional polishing in the nooks and crannies.

I do this before i harden the internals.

[wvcruffler]

Hi Dr Phil,
Does you India-made lock look like this?



I true up the tumbler and tumbler post and then I thread solid steel rod into the tumbler hole after tapping it.  I slightly countersink both sides of the hole and peen the steel rod into the countersinks on both sides.  Then I take my oxy/acetylene torch and melt the blob of peened metal to fuse with the lock plate.  File it flush and then drill it for the tumbler hole.  I usually undersize the hole and using reamers and lapping compound, fit the tumbler in precisely.  An issue we often run into with India-made locks is the lock plate too thick and the shoulder on the tumbler post does not clear the outside of the lock plate.  When the flintcock is tightened down on the tumbler it binds against the lock plate.  The fix you describe would be a good way to deal with that by making a longer tumbler post.  I don't do this work anymore because fixing these locks is more costly than what the client paid for the gun and it takes too much of our time away from other work.

dave

Yes. Lots of daylight. So drill and ream to the press fit diameter of a steel rod (mild steel?) then forge weld into place. Because the tumbler post is not straight and also well out of round I’ll do that as well!  I have a few diameters of 12L14. Suspect it will work. Not likely softer than whenever they made the lockplate of in India. Really appreciate your help. I listened to the ILM podcast with you and your apprentice. Because they have all passed on all the builders I have known in WV have passed to I use what I read on here and over at ML dot com as my teachers! I’m a physician by trade and I have had apprentice students for the last 30 years so I know how important it is to have a good teacher!
Dr Phil