Adding metal to a wood patchbox lid?

[Scota4570]

I have done it but took a very long time to make it perfect.  My current project needs it because the lid came a hair to short.  Before I start, has anyone posted a tutorial on how they do it? 

Added to be more specific,

I have done a couple with 0.042" brass.  That is thin and required a compound curve in the metal to match the wood.  Is it more common to use thicker brass then file the middle of it to match the butplate?  That could avoid beating out a compound curve in the metal to match the butplate contour that follows onto the end of the lid. 

Scot

[2 shots]

  i believe Jim Kibler has a video on that.

[PIKELAKE]

Clay Smith has a video showing how he adds metal to a wood lid. The late Ron Ehlert, shows his method in one of his videos building a Jim Chambers kit.   JZ

[JTR]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your issue, but you can't just put a stop piece on the under side of the PB cover, so it doesn't slide so far forward?
John

[B.Habermehl]

Perhaps my old topic “Rebuilding a frankinrifle” can be some help. I will also be presenting a seminar on wooden patchbox construction at the Gunmakers fair at Kempton. If can attend. BJH

[B.Habermehl]

I try to finish the end of a wooden patch box lid flat to the appropriate angle of the butplate so I’m fitting the end cap to a flat surface. The end cap is best considerably oversized. After the end cap is pinned or screwed to the lid I rough file or saw the dovetail in the lid. Then match up everything and fit everything as close as possible carring the lid fit forward. Dress the front shoulder of the dovetail in the lid to allow final fileing of the lid end to be flush with the butplate. Do this final filing with the lid gently clamped in place. Hope this helps. BJH

[Greg Hartman]

Maybe this new member can help...  I've done this several times.  Even though a patchbox cover with no brass on the end is supposedly period correct, it doesn't look right to me.  This can be surprisingly tricky to do well, for me anyway.  It's not hard to wreck your pathcbox cover, so be careful.

The first step, obviously, is to get the wooden cover fit properly.  Then (sounds like you may already be in this position by default), file the rear of the patchbox cover back, keeping the proper shape and compound radius, until the wood is exactly at the spot where the buttplate and the stock meet.





Then, I roughly saw out a chunk of brass - leave it plenty big and don't use anything too thin because you'll be filing it later, as noted below.



Anneal your brass to make it soft and easily worked.  I do this several times during the process, as it seems to get work hardened.  Make your first, rough effort at hammering/bending the brass to match the compound curves on the back of the patchbox cover.



File the brass to a closer approximation of the butt of the patchbox cover, but still leave plenty.  Drill your screw holes.  Countersink your screw holes in the brass.





Keep annealing and shaping the curve on the brass until you get a perfect match to the back of the patchbox cover.  Drill fairly generous starter holes for your screws in the wood (you don't want to force the screws into the thin wood or it will split).  Start 1/4' (or 3/8' at the most) screws into the wood, but don't go too far.  Back the screws out and cut off the tips of the screws to shorten them so they can't come out the underside of the patchbox cover.  Then, put them in all the way.



File the brass until the screw heads mostly disappear (they will be held in by the countersink).



File the brass to the shape of the patchbox cover; and so that it will fit into the patchbox cover cuts in the buttplate and stock.  Attach your latch spring and relieve that area so it can works smoothly.  Once it's fully seated and working freely, file up the whole thing so the buttplate and the brass piece you just built look like one smooth piece.



Greg

[bluenoser]

Good description Greg.
Although I may be mistaken, it appears that Greg might be filing the rear face of the lid while it is out of the stock.  I have only done a few, but do it a little differently.  After fitting the lid, I slide it back just a tad less than the thickness of the brass I intend to use, clamp it in place and proceed with shaping the rear face.  That allows the rear face of the lid to be shaped to match the contour of the buttplate while also ensuring the final length will be correct.
Just another way to skin that cat

[Greg Hartman]

Good description Greg.
Although I may be mistaken, it appears that Greg might be filing the rear face of the lid while it is out of the stock.  I have only done a few, but do it a little differently.  After fitting the lid, I slide it back just a tad less than the thickness of the brass I intend to use, clamp it in place and proceed with shaping the rear face.  That allows the rear face of the lid to be shaped to match the contour of the buttplate while also ensuring the final length will be correct.
Just another way to skin that cat

That is a better way.  Learn something new every day.  Back in the 18th Century, gunmakers were first apprentices for years. Don’t have that these days.

[Scota4570]

After fussing with 0.042" brass for some time I abandoned it.  I was trying to make it fit the compound curve between the crescent of the but plate and the roll over.

I shimmed out the lid to make it protrude about 0.050" above the but plate.  I then dressed the wood off to make it fit but plate contour.  At that point I made the end of the wood a simple curve taking an average of the crescent shape and continued the roll over on the flat plane.  Instead of a compound cure it was now a simple curve. I made sure that the corners that mated to the but plate matched the bottom of the but plate curve.  I then contoured apiece of 0.090" stock to match the wood using carbon paper.  I secured the metal to the wood with hot melt glue.  Then drilled my holes and countersunk them.  The brass  was attached with the screws.  Then I scribed the wood edges.  I melted off the glue. The excess was roughly trimmed.    Then the excess was carefully filed.  I added a layer of tape to the end of the file to ride on the wood and thus avoiding filing the wood.  Once it fit just right I matched the contour of the brass to the but plate.  I stayed mindful of the thickness of the but plate and made the cap match that.  That created a continuous line.  I like dressing down the thicker metal better than creating complicated curves out of thinner metal.  I'll clock the screws later.   It is not perfect but nothing ever is to my sensibilities.  IT will do.

[foresterdj]

That will more than do. Looks good.

[davec2]

My take on this task.....two different types.....

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76307.msg757575#msg757575

[Scota4570]

If I had made the patchbox lid I would have made it more like Dave did.    The compound curve and rolled over contour makes it more difficult.  To roll over came that way in the kit.  I can imagine that the roll over makes it more comfortable to shoot though. 

The build plan was to not add the brass end plate.  This is my son's first attempt, I wanted to keep it simple for him.  The end of the wood came lower than the brass butplate.  The catch required modification.  So, I decided to add the brass, that fixed a couple of things. Now I have to put my hands in my pockets and let him loose. 

[bluenoser]

The button appears to stick out quite a ways and be quite heavily domed.  It might be a little more comfortable to shoulder and shoot if you make it thinner and flatter, but still slightly rounded.  It would also be less likely to catch on something and accidentally release.  You just need to be able to catch it with the tip of a finger.

[Scota4570]

The button is as made for the kit.  On my other ones I did not notice any problems.  I may reshape it a bit.  It is a bit "catchy" right now.  IT is as close as possible to the brass, to function without binding as is.  I did cut a recess in the brass under the button already. 

The first hundred are the hardest.   

[bluenoser]

Did not mean to suggest the button could have been closer to the face of the buttplate and lid.  I was saying I believe the button might be a litte thicker than necessary.  My apology if you thought otherwise 

[Greg Hartman]

Looks like others leave the screw heads intact and sticking out a bit.  I've always filed mine down to the level of the brass, because that's what I was taught years ago.  Is one method more "correct" than the other?

Greg

[Scota4570]

It is my understanding that they used dome head screws and tended to leave them like I did in the photo.  The other poster did it like you suggested.  I think both look good.  I bet different period gun makers did it different ways.