Where do you source flared iron ramrods?

[rich pierce]

I may be building a musket and I’d like to use a an iron ramrod with a nice flared tip. Not the button sort. Make one or can they be bought?

[Eric Kettenburg]

Don't you have a forge dude?   

[Robert Wolfe]

Oh, that was cold Eric. But, a fair question!

[rich pierce]

Don't you have a forge dude?   

That was quite “upsetting”, Eric!    Yes we have a forge, but the question is, what sort of blacksmith do we have?

I’ll have to practice my welding as I’m not interested in tapering larger stock for 46”. Of course I could cheat and form the tapered end and have a buddy tig weld it to a straight rod. Bush league!

[FlinterNick]

I may be building a musket and I’d like to use a an iron ramrod with a nice flared tip. Not the button sort. Make one or can they be bought?

Rich, for military muskets I cut the tip on my lathe and then attach it to the body of the rod. The body starts at usually a rod that is little larger such as 1/4 or 5/16, Attaching can be brazed, counter bored and pinned or counter bored and threaded with Locktite. You can also weld the tip too which I recommend. Just a spot weld, a 360 degree weld can sometimes distort the rod.

Many Original military rods were not designed as one piece on many military muskets, the tips were soldered or brazed to the body. Later muskets were turned in one piece. 

Once the tip is attached you can taper the entire rod.


Nick Genda

[rich pierce]

Thanks Nick!  I’ll be tempted to forge the head from half inch or slightly bigger round stock - likely an old bolt - then attach that to the rest of it by brazing. Scarf, pin, braze in the forge. What could possibly go wrong?

I’m guessing the  ramrods in the 1700s were wrought iron and later ones were steel.

[FlinterNick]

Thanks Nick!  I’ll be tempted to forge the head from half inch or slightly bigger round stock - likely an old bolt - then attach that to the rest of it by brazing. Scarf, pin, braze in the forge. What could possibly go wrong?

I’m guessing the  ramrods in the 1700s were wrought iron and later ones were steel.

Your method is pretty much the original method, yes the tips were iron and the rods were flexible steel not iron.

The Prussians started using a heavy rod on their 1740 muskets that was only slightly tapered, the idea was the rod didn’t have to be turned over to load so the slightly flared tip was intended to be a handle.  The rod weighed nearly 1 or more and I would kinda odd looking on the musket, it required the forearms be be heavier, one of the ugliest muskets ever made. The early french rods did it a few ways, some were two pieces and some were completely straight with the tip being a disc that was bored and then braded on like a bigger rivet being braded on to a smaller rod. They often looked like elongated flat headed nails than load rods.
The Spanish tended to be of higher quality with the entire rods often being a milder type of spring steel, our equivalent of 1050-1060 steel.

[bob in the woods]

Would heating and "upsetting" the end of the rod be an option ? That's what I do when making lock bolts

[rich pierce]

Would heating and "upsetting" the end of the rod be an option ? That's what I do when making lock bolts

Definitely but for me, upsetting a 1/4” rod to half an inch diameter ant the tip, with the diameter increasing over a 4” length to get a nice smooth taper would be challenging. If I was only trying to create a button or a short taper it would be more likely I could do it. Something to practice.

[smart dog]

Hi Rich,
Listen to Nick.  Most rods were 2 pieces including the button headed ones.  Iron rods were used early in the 18th century but militaries quickly upgraded to steel despite the extra cost.  The iron rods bent too easily.  Here is an exact description of how they were proofed in the early 19th century written by John Marshall, clerk and paymaster of the Ordnance in Birmingham:

" The Ramrods were proved by putting the end on the ground and taking the head in the hand and pressing upon it, and bending it in various directions; if after this proof it continued straight, it was taken hold of in the middle by one hand and held vertically the head downwards, at a considerable distance above an anvil and allowed to fall upon its head, in order to make it ring, and to ascertain if it was sound, if it resisted these proofs, it was marked under the head and received into store."

Are you making a COS musket?

dave
 

[rich pierce]

Thanks Dave, a potential customer you referred to me is looking at this one as a possibility. Either that or a Hills fowler. It’s still up in the air but I want start thinking about sourcing parts.

http://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_a__american_flintlock_musket_marked_to_the_1st_co-lot465442.aspx

[redheart]

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/search?FullText=brown+bess+ramrod
Lodgewood Mfg. also has a plethora of different ramrods.
https://logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?path=184_160_7     Log Cabin Shop may be your best bet.

[rich pierce]

Thanks redheart, one looks very good.

[redheart]

Actually Log Cabin Shop may be your best bet. https://logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?path=184_160_7

[smart dog]

Hi Rich,
Hmmmm.  That musket at Morphy's is a little odd.  I am not sure it was likely made before 1777 or 1778.  If the lock was salvaged from a Bess it was a pattern 1777 at the earliest although the flintcock is from earlier locks.  The idea of the flared middle pipe was something new for the pattern 1777 Besses.  The pipes look hand made but still the idea, the "Pratt" flared middle pipe was after 1777.  The stock does not look like butternut unless heavily stained.  Anyway, you can source the pattern 1769, 1777, butt plate from TRS directly or you could modify the long land pattern butt plate sold by TOW.  The trigger guard can be obtained either from TOW or TRS.  TRS will have the wrist plate.  The barrel can come from TRS using their pattern 1769 or 1777 Brown Besses and then cut back.  You might also consider the trigger and trigger plate from either TRS or TOW, however, the plate from TOW has a trigger slot way too wide and poorly positioned. 

Good luck,

dave   

[FlinterNick]

Hi Rich,
Hmmmm.  That musket at Morphy's is a little odd.  I am not sure it was likely made before 1777 or 1778.  If the lock was salvaged from a Bess it was a pattern 1777 at the earliest although the flintcock is from earlier locks.  The idea of the flared middle pipe was something new for the pattern 1777 Besses.  The pipes look hand made but still the idea, the "Pratt" flared middle pipe was after 1777.  The stock does not look like butternut unless heavily stained.  Anyway, you can source the pattern 1769, 1777, butt plate from TRS directly or you could modify the long land pattern butt plate sold by TOW.  The trigger guard can be obtained either from TOW or TRS.  TRS will have the wrist plate.  The barrel can come from TRS using their pattern 1769 or 1777 Brown Besses and then cut back.  You might also consider the trigger and trigger plate from either TRS or TOW, however, the plate from TOW has a trigger slot way too wide and poorly positioned. 

Good luck,

dave

Dave, it’s kind of odd that the trigger guard isn’t drilled for the sling boss, if they omitted it, wouldn’t there be a vacant hole? Unless they copied the hardware.

[rich pierce]

Dave and Nick, thanks. As you know with customers, often they accept the auction house or seller’s description or book description as accurate. Butternut is a poor wood choice. So soft. I’d be surprised if it could “pass muster.”

I suppose that COS muskets were being made during the War?

Still don’t know what the customer will decide on or when. Just checking on availability of parts so I can advise the guy. This is very helpful.

[Clint]

I have almost finished a N E styled fowler and I wanted a metal ramrod. I hammered a short peice of 1/2" round bar onto the end of a 1/4" rod. I upset the 1/4 bar to about 3/8" and scarfed both pieces. since the stuff was small it welded easily, and I tapered the joint on a swage. Sounds easy and at the time it was. We have just moved to New Hampshire and are preoccupied with all that entails, but I will post the fowler when I find my camera, etc.Clint