Alex Henry 62 bore double rifle

[snapper]

Well I guess I needed another rifle to play with and ended up with this Alex Henry double rifle in 62 bore.

I dont have it in hand yet so Bob Roller, no lock pictures at this time.

Fleener

[BigSkyRambler]

Hubba! Hubba!

[Pukka Bundook]

62 bore or calibre Fleener?

Looks a lovely rifle in top notch shape. Lovely wood, and a fixed sight?

I wonder if any front sights in the grip cap?  Can't see front sight, but they often slide in from the front.

Congrats!!

[Daryl]

62 bore or calibre Fleener?

Looks a lovely rifle in top notch shape. Lovely wood, and a fixed sight?

I wonder if any front sights in the grip cap?  Can't see front sight, but they often slide in from the front.

Congrats!!

My chart shows .62 bore as .422".
Looking pretty nice!!

[HSmithTX]

Shazammmmm, that is beautiful. 

[Bob Roller]

The screw spacing tells me these are high end locks and I hope you will post pictures of the mechanisms. Being able to make hollow mills made it possible for me to copy as close as possible the bridles of these types of locks.Also the name of Alex Henry would be a guarantee of a quality locks.I dis make a left and right set for a man years ago and was well paid and years later I was told these locks were never used on any double barreled gun but were not for sale.I was paid $700 for that pair and thought a price quote that high would be a deterrent
but it wasn't.
Bob Roller

[snapper]

Richard

It was advertised as a 62 bore.   So, I am assuming that it is not a .62 cal.   62 bore or 62 cal., either way really does not matter to me.  I already have one of these in .451 or 52 bore

I am believing that the 62 bore is accurate as the seller would know the difference.  The rifle comes with a bullet mold, so I am hopeful that it is good and works well in the rifle. 

I am not sure on the front sight, the best I can do is zoom in on the barrels in the case.   Looks like a big front sight.

Fleener

[Daryl]

Looks like a fairly tall, long tapered bead front sight.

[Robby]

Wow, what a beauty!!!!!! I'd bet on the smaller bore but either way, what an experience to own and shoot a gun like that.
Congratulations and have fun!
Robby

[Robin Henderson]

Art, you da man! Another beauty on the way

[snapper]

Bob:

Just got the rifle.

Here you go with the promised picture of the locks.

Some hacker with a file named Joseph Brazier of The Ashes made them.

Fleener

[snapper]

The below marking is on the rifle, ramrod tip, case, and various accoutrements.

I believe that it is a W over a M.  Anyone recognize the marking below the M over a W?  Perhaps it is simply a personal mark.

Fleener

[snapper]

A buddy of mine says he has seen the same mark on another Alex Henry that went to India.   That the marking might have meaning as a Hindu marking for good luck or some such.

Probably a good thing that our ML's can't talk and tell their story.   Makes me wonder if this rifle has been on a tiger hunt.

Fleener

[snapper]

This load information is marked on the inside of the case lid. 

130 grains of powder pushing a 270-grain bullet is a very stiff load.  But if you are hunting dangerous game, it might be warranted.  The bullet mold also is marked as Alex Henry and throws a very deep hollow point bullet that measures .41" in dia. without paper.   Doubt it was used as a Roe deer rifle.

I have shot a lot of big whitetail's with a very similar bullet in .45.   I have never had one of those hollow points expand.  But I am only shooting 86 grains of 2 f Swiss.  Bullet is not going fast enough to expand when it hits the animal.

I am hoping to get out and shoot it later this week.   Be interesting in if I can figure out what yardage it is regulated at and hopefully I don't have to use 130 grains of powder.

[Bob Roller]

Bob:

Just got the rifle.

Here you go with the promised picture of the locks.

Some hacker with a file named Joseph Brazier of The Ashes made them.

Fleener

[Bob Roller]

Top of the line locks for sure.They eat up  time in making them but the results are what counts.To anyone who looks at these locks,please notice the angle of the links that connect the mainsprings to the tumbler..The first lifting of the hammers will be very noticeable and  after it get to half cock almost no resistance.I find the "3 pin"bridle to be as rigid as the "4 pin" and equally good looking and making them will test the filing skills of anyone who makes them.I roughed them in with a 5 flute carbide end mill 3/16"in diameter and begin the filing.
Daryls's comment on the bullet weight a big powder charge with light bullets indicate an "Express"load.The American Sharps rifles used that same charge with a 550 grain bullet which for hunting dangerous critters is much more efficient.That gun was regulated for the lighter bullets and I think it will work fine.Thank you for posing this superb piece of craftsmanship and let us know if you try it too see if it regulates.
Bob Roller

[whetrock]

That gun was regulated for the lighter bullets and I think it will work fine.Thank you for posing this superb piece of craftsmanship and let us know if you try it too see if it regulates.
Bob Roller

Bob, Can you briefly explain this concept of "regulate" and "regulated"?
Thanks.
Whetrock

[snapper]

For a double rifle like this you only have one rear and one front sight, placed in the middle between both barrels.  The trick is as a shooter to try and figure out at what yardage and what load that both bullets come together down range.

The gun makers would use shims between the barrels and then shoot the gun before the ribs are completely soldered on.   Adjust the shims for up and down, left and right.   With one set of sights, you want the point of impact fairly close for both barrels.

This rifle is for game up close.   Not a long range rifle.  Likely for dangerous game, hence two barrels and two shots.

My guess is that 50 yards or so both barrels will be fairly close.  I have heard people say that acceptable accuracy for a double ML rifle is a 12" group I think at 100 yards, might of even been 50 yards, cant remember.   Someone that knows, please chime in.

Shooting a double rifle can be a real PIA trying to figure out how to get both barrels to come together.  This is my third double rifle.   After my second one I said I would never buy another.....but my memory is not so good apparently.

A double rifle like any of the modern made ML has two rear sights, one for each barrel.  Makes it cheaper to produce and easier for the shooter to sight in the rifle.  Also looks like $#@* IMO.

Fleener

   

[snapper]

https://www.johnrigbyandco.com/regulating-a-double-rifle/#:~:text=The%20regulating%20jig%20is%20a%20contraption%20that%20fits,cleaning%20brush%20and%20a%20tin%20complete%20the%20essentials.

This should help explain regulating barrels.

Fleener

[JTR]

Since I know next to nothing about these sort of guns, maybe someone can explain how it is that the case and some of the accessories are all pretty beat up, but the gun itself is in pristine condition?
I would guess that either the gun and case aren't original to one another, or the gun has been refinished?
I'm curious. It's a beautiful rifle! The case is a mess.
Respectfully, John

[snapper]

The gun was sold at Holt's auction in England.  They felt that the gun is in its original condition and now that I have it in hand, I would agree with that assessment.  Holts sees thousands of fine guns and IMO is one of the best auction houses for providing a very accurate assessment and description.

I always wonder the same about the condition of the cases.   Keep in mind that this is around 175 years old.  Alot of rifles and shotguns of this age are missing their cases.   The case is to protect its contents.   I have a few duffle bags that were/are high end with full leather bottoms and heavy canvas.  These bags have a lot of miles on them for the past 40 years and are really looking worn out and have had to have a few repairs.   But they still protect the stuff inside of them.

The pictures always make the gun look a little better than what it is.   There are plenty of dings in the stock and wear on some of the metal from use.  I use Kramers to clean up the wood and I got plenty of grime off the wood.

The case certainly could be a replacement.  If it is, I do believe that the AH label on the inside of the case is an original and not a replica.  Case might have been with a different AH gun originally.  We will never know.   I think for a price I can have the original records reviewed and be told who bought the rifle, year and price.   If that individuals' initials were WM then we could be certain that the case is original to that rifle as both are marked.

I have a couple of cases that are in worse condition this this one, but they also protected a lesser gun.

I have a Rigby LRML rifle that is in very similar condition as this rifle and would be just as much if not more highly regarded as this AH and it was made in 1864.   That rifle would have most certainly been cased, and I know that rifle at least once traveled from Ireland to the USA to be shot in a match.  When I bought it, the rifle was missing the case and the front and rear sights.   Cases wear out, but where did the sights go to??   Perhaps the heirs did not know where the loose sights went to?    As the result, I started putting every loose piece in the gun safe in a zip lock bag with a note of what it is and what gun it belongs to.    Might be helpful to my heirs.

Fleener

[whetrock]

Snapper,
Thanks for the link to the article. That was the first time I have seen a photo of that sort of apparatus.
Whetrock

[Bob Roller]

For hoots and giggles i made up one of these mechanisms in one of the J&S Hawken lock plates but don't remember who got it.
Bob Roller

[Habu]

My guess is that 50 yards or so both barrels will be fairly close.  I have heard people say that acceptable accuracy for a double ML rifle is a 12" group I think at 100 yards, might of even been 50 yards, cant remember.   Someone that knows, please chime in.

I had a 24-bore Manton double for a couple years.  Unfortunately it came without a case or loading info, so I had to start working up a load from scratch and it took a while to get a load worked out.  With my final load and shot off a standing rest, it would do ~6"-7" for a 10-shot group at 100 yards.  To get this, I had to let the barrels cool between shots (fire a right-and-left, wait ~5 minutes, repeat). 

[bigsmoke]

Regulating double rifles.  What a tedious job.  Shims were indeed used.  And clamps.  We worked on a 50 yard target.  Typically we would get 2-3" groups.  .820 round ball with a round cleaning patch over a lubed 8 ga cushion wad over 300 grains of Fg powder.  Shot from a standing rest, of course.  Those were guns you didn't want to shoot from a bench rest if you valued your body.  I didn't mind doing the shooting with the 8 bores, but the 4 bore was more than I would have wanted to do as a regular exercise.
I am sure if that rifle of yours was used in India or Africa, it was for smaller game.  Just not enough for larger critters, especially the ones that could bite back.
Regardless, that is one beautiful example of classic English craftsmanship.  I am sure it would be a prized possession in anyone's collection.  And that is a great idea about labeling different loose parts.  At one point I started to do something like that with some of my stuff, but I got distracted and never finished.