Author Topic: Contemporary builds heavily aged  (Read 2840 times)

Offline HighUintas

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Contemporary builds heavily aged
« on: July 17, 2025, 04:51:33 AM »
I am curious about a few different aspects of contemporary builds that are heavily aged to either be a bench copy of a particular rifle or just be representative of a real original.

The two topics I am thinking about, which are only a couple of items in the forefront of my mind but not the whole story in ageing a new gun, are wood aging and metal to wood and metal to metal fit.

On many originals there appears to be a terrible metal to metal or metal to wood fit, and the wood is often very.... Shrunk? The wood grain seems very open and not smooth anymore as if parts of the wood shrunk more than others.

So I'm wondering, is there an artificial aging process that accomplishes both at the same time, or do certain things like metal to wood/metal fit have to be done when inletting the parts?

The only great contemporary builder examples I know of are that of Mr Kettenburg. I understand that some of these may be trade secrets that various people may not want to share, but I'm hoping some general information or guidelines might be given.

In a brief Internet search, I see that wood can be aged through kilning or heat treatment. But I don't know if that would produce desired results.

It has me thinking I kind of want to inlet a couple pieces of mild steel into some maple scrap, bury it in the dirt and expose it to heat and water etc to see what happens

Online rich pierce

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2025, 05:02:10 AM »
I seldom see contemporary guns aged to this degree. Wood shrinkage is simulated by finishing the wood below the surface of the buttplate.

Look at this 1700s original club butt fowler. Notice how the buttplate overhangs the toe. And the buttplate return is raised above the level of the comb. This can be simulated when building and aging a new gun. Shrinkage is a percent of a dimension. That’s why the toe overhang is greater than the edges of the buttplate. A buttstock is taller than wide. Most folks won’t notice your efforts at simulating shrinkage of the wood. They will see color, gunk, distressing, and pitting and patination of iron and brass, primarily.



« Last Edit: July 17, 2025, 05:29:56 AM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2025, 03:09:39 PM »
The late Tom Dawson made Hawken copies that looked like originals and he built in the mistakes and breaks seen in old ones.
His Hoffman&Campbell copy had a "repaired"break thru the grip and altered the lock to a "full cock only".I made it and it had a 2 position tumbler when new.Triggers were made on the long bar common to these guns but with "Kentucky Rifle"two way triggers and springs.
This rifle was a J&S in all respects but had Hoffman&Campbell on the top of the barrel.He had me mak what I called a "low end"lock for it and I still have that plate pattern
Bob Roller

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2025, 03:28:34 PM »
Here's one I did recently that will be at the CLA show.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84781.0



Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline sz

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2025, 04:20:46 PM »
I have done aged finishing at times too, but I do it only when it was specifically requested.
Here are a few I  did years ago;
Antiqued Hawken by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Antiqued Hawken 2 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Set, left sides by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Matched set forends by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Antiques set by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Becker 9 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Becker 7 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2025, 06:27:29 PM »
Don Bruton is the master of ageing rifles. it is how I like them made and he has made several for me. They come to me with dents, dings faux repairs, metal pitting and rough spots (outside of bore only).
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline HSmithTX

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2025, 11:18:19 PM »
Mike Brooks has a pretty good touch at aging,  he posted a lot of info on how he did it also. 

Online Stoner creek

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2025, 12:01:51 AM »
Kettenburg is the King of aging contemporary arms.
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Offline axelp

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2025, 12:44:36 AM »
Another builder that likes to build in aging and hard use is Brent Gurtek.
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Offline B Kauffman

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2025, 05:09:36 AM »
Ive considered removing wood and charing or something forward of the pan...seems like a lot of well used originals are ate out there from use and I assume black powder residue.

Leaving no crisp edges anywhere is a common trait too.
Barrel flat to barrel flat is rounded from wear, finish is usually shiny from wear not from the sheen of the finish used...
I wish I new how to create the gaps without looking like I created the gaps.

I don't have any methods worth sharing but I'm always thinking how to make my guns look old as heck.  That's how I like em.  Shiny brass and a dent free stock is for the birds. I kill stuff with my guns and I want them to look like a work horse.
-Brian
« Last Edit: July 18, 2025, 03:39:40 PM by B Kauffman »

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2025, 04:29:51 PM »
Thanks for all the thoughts and builders suggestions.

Rich, you bring up a really good point on the dimensional shrinkage of wood and how that impacts where the gaps form. That makes it seem to me like it would take a real master builder to create a convincing forgery of an original

Offline Blacksmoke

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2025, 04:48:57 PM »
 I have always figured that Mother Nature and Father Time are the true Masters of REAL aging!! Can't quite wrap my mind around the FAKE stuff!! H.T.
H.T.

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2025, 05:15:16 PM »
I have always figured that Mother Nature and Father Time are the true Masters of REAL aging!! Can't quite wrap my mind around the FAKE stuff!! H.T.

Agreed. That's why I'm amazed with the work of guys who can fool a trained eye.

I don't know if heavily aging a gun that is for my personal use is something I'd want to do or not, but the process is interesting to me.

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2025, 05:44:10 PM »
Gimme one of them fake guns made by Hershel House or Allen Martin or Steve Zihn or Don Bruton or that fella up in Alaska please!
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Online whetrock

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2025, 05:57:54 PM »
Gimme one of them fake guns made by Hershel House or Allen Martin or Steve Zihn or Don Bruton or that fella up in Alaska please!

Yep.
Doing it well is a skill.

If a gun is supposed to look like an 18th c. piece, the skill also includes understanding the techniques and philosophy of 18th c. builders. You cannot take a "perfect" (in quotation marks) rifle as many builders on here try to build (every surface polished, every screw perfectly centered, screw slots perfectly centered and all perfectly timed, etc.) and then convincingly make it look old. In that regard, I can't help but to agree with Hugh T.

On the other hand, there are several craftsmen who truly understand the 18th c. rifle, and they can build one that looks like it was just recently found and cleaned up a little, including having all the 18th c. marks of a hand-built piece. That, in my opinion, is a big step above building a "perfect" gun. I'm not talking about hiding poor craftsmanship. I guess some guys try to do that as well. But there are fine craftsmen (including Jud Brennan in Alaska) who aren't slouches trying to hide poor craftsmanship.

A friend of mine calls guns like I am describing "forgeries". I find that disappointing. If the builder signs his name to the rifle and dates it somewhere (whether on the barrel or inside the box) and, moreover, stands behind it at the table as his potential customers look at his/her work and make their orders, then it's not forgery. It's art.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2025, 06:16:05 PM by whetrock »

Offline foxm2015

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2025, 07:09:30 PM »
Jack DuPrey of Michigan.

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2025, 07:21:50 PM »
I use the term forgery in the literal sense.... Thinking of some of the guns at auction that are supposedly originals.

I would not call a contemporary build made to look old a forgery unless the builder intended it

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2025, 07:49:31 PM »
Jack DuPrey of Michigan.

Jack is a friend of mine and I have one of his guns on my bench at all times. I often look at his rifles in the evening when the wife has control of the TV remote too!  ;D
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline JTR

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2025, 08:04:18 PM »
If you take the time to learn what you're looking at, there's no way any modern aged gun is going to fool you.
There's just too many tell-tale give aways.
John
John Robbins

Online rich pierce

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2025, 08:40:41 PM »
If you take the time to learn what you're looking at, there's no way any modern aged gun is going to fool you.
There's just too many tell-tale give aways.
John

I agree 100%.  I can’t understand the hubbub about aged guns being “forgeries.”  Now, I can be fooled by powder horns. Probably because many originals have been cleaned up.

But I hope folks here will share some techniques they use. I’ve got a personal gun I’ve aged, brought back to new, and aged again. Just for the heck of it. Most of that was gunk in the crevices that n the wood finish and varying the rusty patina on the steel bits. It was already distressed, mostly by being owned by me.
Andover, Vermont

Online whetrock

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2025, 09:28:09 PM »
If you take the time to learn what you're looking at, there's no way any modern aged gun is going to fool you.
There's just too many tell-tale give aways.
John

Thanks for adding that comment, John.

Regarding techniques, for those who don't mind ordering a book, you might want to check out "Gunsmith Tips & Projects, 2nd ed." (Wolfe Publishing Company). John Bivins (deceased) has several articles in there, including three on restoration (last three chapters in the volume). His detailed explanations about how he did restoration on a particular rifle are excellent food for thought for any of us interested in making new stuff look old.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2025, 11:16:26 PM by whetrock »

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2025, 12:51:07 AM »
If you take the time to learn what you're looking at, there's no way any modern aged gun is going to fool you.
There's just too many tell-tale give aways.
John

Thanks for adding that comment, John.

Regarding techniques, for those who don't mind ordering a book, you might want to check out "Gunsmith Tips & Projects, 2nd ed." (Wolfe Publishing Company). John Bivins (deceased) has several articles in there, including three on restoration (last three chapters in the volume). His detailed explanations about how he did restoration on a particular rifle are excellent food for thought for any of us interested in making new stuff look old.

Great suggestion. Thank you! I'll be sure to pick that up.


I'm working on aging my flintlock just through natural use, but it's a pretty dang slow process without hard abusive use

Offline Osprey

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2025, 04:41:06 AM »
If you want that shrunken wood look around the butt plate and all hang a rifle over or near a hard working woodstove for the winter, you'll get it.  Don't ask me how I learned that one... :o
"Any gun built is incomplete until it takes game!"

Offline elkhorne

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2025, 06:10:27 AM »
I agree with Osprey! I recently purchased a rifle made in the early 70s and it has obviously been owned by who knows how many people and used, but not abused. The rifle was well taken care of but smelled of a wonderful hardwood smoke suggesting it might have spent some years over a fireplace. That wonderful smell let one’s mind wonder of the history that rifle had seen over the past 50 or so years! How many deer or elk had it taken or how many rendezvous has it seen. Just as Osprey said, the wood around the steel buttplate has slightly shrunk. The barrel shows its age, other hardware as well. All of this “aging” appears very natural like Blacksmoke suggested but the bore remains shiny and bright. A well used rifle but well taken care of! Just my two bits! Interesting discussion.
elkhorne

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Contemporary builds heavily aged
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2025, 11:21:02 AM »
Yes.  Don Bruton and Jack Duprey are masters of crafting guns that appear to be well worn and well loved.  Much talent in both fine men.