Need Help Identifying a Old Muzzle Loader (I believe it is a Charleville Musket)

[tjkfarms0103]

Hi All, I am new to this forum and was recommended by my one professor who I know is a member. I recently purchased a old flintlock muzzle loader that I believe to be a Charleville musket (based on the lock). I don't know much about these so any information would be greatly appreciated. The barrel length is 42 & 5/8" but it does not look as though it was cut off. I have tried my best to get the best possible pictures to show some of the markings however if there is anything that would help please let me know. I would love to get y'alls opinion and any information on it would be greatly appreciated. Ultimately I would like to return it to fireable condition or sell it (I like to be able to shoot any gun I own). 

[smart dog]

Hi,
It is an odd ball for sure.  I believe it may be some sort of French model 1777 carbine for dragoons.  However, I am not convinced the front barrel band is original to the gun and its position was moved back from the muzzle.  You can see part of the slot for the band spring behind it and that slot is too short indicating the band was originally positioned several inches further forward. I believe those bands were brass on dragoon carbines so the forward band may be a replacement for one lost when the stock was damaged and stuck on in the wrong position.

dave   

[tjkfarms0103]

Thank you so much for taking the time to help! The front barrel band does look like it was hit back by someone at some point. Would you try and remove it to see if there is anything under it? I have held off because I'm not sure I would be able to get it back on.

[JV Puleo]

Overall views would have been a lot more helpful...it's hard to get any sense of proportion from closeups. It is a French carbine although difficult to tell from those pictures whether for Dragoons, Cavalry or Hussars (they all had different patterns). The position of the front band is likely correct. I don't think it's  M1777 but, more likely, either the Model of the Years 9 or 13 (according to the French Revolutionary Calendar).

[smart dog]

Hi Joe,
If you click on the first photo that shows a closeup of the right side of the forward band it will bring up the image with a zoom tool.  Zoom in and you can see that the mortise showing behind the band for the spring is much too short.  That band was positioned several inches further forward.

dave

[ntqlvr1948]

 The worm damage to the stock is so severe i would be afraid to shoot it as it might break further.

[Niall]

Looks to me like the barrel and forestock have been extended . There's a visible line and the barrel has different patina either side, also different wood. You would need to show the overall gun. The lock is in very good shape but the stock would turn to a cloud of dust if you were to fire it.

[smart dog]

Hi,
The difference in patina of the barrel is likely because the front band was originally positioned 2 - 2.5" further forward. You need to treat the wood for wood worm and then use a wood hardener to stabilize it.

dave

[tjkfarms0103]

Hi all, thank you so much for your information! I have attached some pictures that are overall views with a yard stick to for reference to help with identification. Would I be crazy to have a reproduction stock built and put it on it to be able to shoot? Obviously, I would hold onto the original stock for the historical value. Or would you recommend never shooting it and making sure that it ends up with a collector?

[Robert Wolfe]

With the condition of the stock I don't think you should shoot it.