Another J. Sheets Rifle

[120RIR]

It's not even in the same league as the magnificent J. Sheets rifle I stole at an on-line auction some months back that Wallace Gusler commented on, but this ain't too bad either!  It appears to be original flint and a pretty easy fix/restoration.  I'd love to hear some comments and thoughts about which J. Sheets (it's apparently signed...these are just the most preliminary auction photos) you think it might be and anything else.  Thanks!

[Avlrc]

Patchbox looks Ohio to me. Nice find. Maybe PA.

[homerifle]

You're a lucky guy. I believe AVLRC is right in his assumption. Although this gun has a similar profile of Charlestown and later Hampshire County J. Sheetz rifles, his engraving isn't nearly as well executed as
the maker from this area. If it is from V/ WV, the spelling of the last name would be with a z and not an s for this particular builder.

[120RIR]

Indeed - the engraving is somewhat "rustic" to put it politely but I'll have to wait until I actually get my hands on it to see if it's Sheets, or Sheetz with a "z".  Oddly, at least according to the auction description,  that signature is on a wrist escutcheon and not on a barrel flat as one might expect but we'll see.  Oh, and the lock is apparently marked John Walker. 

[JTR]

Looks like a nice rifle, and a good project for you!
It looks to be a single bolt flintlock as well. Not unknown, but surely few and far between on a rifle.
Looking forward to more pics when you get the gun.
John

[homerifle]

Indeed - the engraving is somewhat "rustic" to put it politely but I'll have to wait until I actually get my hands on it to see if it's Sheets, or Sheetz with a "z".  Oddly, at least according to the auction description,  that signature is on a wrist escutcheon and not on a barrel flat as one might expect but we'll see.  Oh, and the lock is apparently marked John Walker. 

This looks promising to be something out of the Staunton, Augusta County area or Rockbridge County with a signed John Walker lock. I believe Walker is deceased by 1794. The gun looks a lot later than that, but parts were used up if you had a need for it. I really like hearing about this piece. Let us know and see what you find when it gets to you. Thanks for posting.

[backsplash75]

Did Sheets typically sign on the barrel? I generally expect the customer to be who the mounts are inscribed to and the builder on the barrel, lock maker on the lock, but obviously there are exceptions to this.

Marked: nameplate on top of the wrist of the stock marked "J. Sheets" in cursive script
 

Some other John Walker marked locks



https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1041/102/john-walker-marked-flintlock-fowling-piece

https://www.ancestryguns.com/john-walker-marked-flintlock-fowling-piece-4-12-crantique001/

[homerifle]

Did Sheets typically sign on the barrel? I generally expect the customer to be who the mounts are inscribed to and the builder on the barrel, lock maker on the lock, but obviously there are exceptions to this.

Marked: nameplate on top of the wrist of the stock marked "J. Sheets" in cursive script
 

I agree with you on this assumption. There was more than one John Walker from that area in Virginia. Better conclusions on who made this gun might be made once the new owner gets it in hand and has more pictures. Another guess could be a gift to Sheets from a gunsmith friend in his later years. That could be the reason for the poorly executed workmanship.

[cshirsch]

Another rifle with a John Walker lock.











good old days gif

[cshirsch]

My J. Sheets rifle.

[homerifle]

That's a real nice Sheets rifle Chris. I really like the finish and the acorn inlay on the comb. Thanks for posting it.

[JTR]

That's a real nice Sheets rifle Chris. I really like the finish and the acorn inlay on the comb. Thanks for posting it.

I agree, that's a nice rifle!

[120RIR]

Rifle arrived today so attached are some reasonably decent (+-) photos.  I've only taken the most cursory glances but here are number of things I noticed and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.  Barrel length is about 37 inches, overall length about 49 inches.  It looks like about 54 cal. give or take and I can't see any rifling.  This appears to be an old restoration project or at least there are some old repairs on the forestock.  There are no signs of a signature on the barrel flat - not even to the most fevered imagination.  There is, however, the "J. Sheets" (with an "s") on the silver wrist escutcheon.  That engraving is finely done unlike the rest of the engraving which is somewhat "rustic" to put it politely - especially that Star Trek logo or whatever the heck it is on the cheek.  Clearly, we're looking at two very, very different hands with the engraving.  The lock has two screws but only one was used to attach to the lock to rifle and there is no sign whatsoever of another in the stock at the frizzen spring end.  There is no catch or release at all on the patchbox - just the arrangement seen in the photo. You can see a filled hole at the breech where a drum was once installed.  The lock fits perfectly and shows no signs of having been reconverted.  Might we be looking at a recycled barrel here and not a reconversion?

Fortunately, whomever had this rifle before me recognized it would be re-restored and saved a couple of loose screws and some of the broken-off fragments of stock wood!  I would love to get some thoughts on this one especially from you Virginia/West Virginia/Sheetz(s) guys.

[Avlrc]

The engraving & carving don't look old. I think the J Sheets name on the escutcheon plate is a lot better engraving & more likely an owner than a maker. 

[Tanselman]

If you look at the toe plate, it is simple but neatly decorated and attached with round head screws. When you look at the patchbox, you see very amateurish, rough engraving that no Sheets gunsmith would have done... and flat head screws. Even the inletting of the patchbox is rough, and the hinge is non-typical. The sideplate suffers from the same amateurish engraving that no Sheets, or any accomplished 19th century gunsmith, would have done. I think you have an original rifle that has been significantly "enhanced" in recent years by someone just starting out to engrave and inlet.

Shelby Gallien

[homerifle]

Well here goes, I agree with AVLRC and Tanselman's remarks. The wrist inlay and toe plate are well done in comparison to the rest of the engraving. Although there may once been a finial at the toe plate end. It terminates a little abruptly and that screw seem a little out of place with out a more formal one. The wrist signature when compared to Chris's rifle pictured earlier here is not by the same hand of Sheets. The lines of the rifle look to be a product from Sheets shop or of someone that had worked there. The large barrel bore and style of the single trigger could be an indication of recycled flint era parts. The butt plate points toward the later percussion era. The trigger guard uses a screw to hold the front in place and you can see it was never drilled and pined. The rear of it is pined and if you look close you will see a piece of wood inlayed behind the rear guard rail. I feel that is a replaced guard. The patch box lid has been ill repaired and may not be the original box to the gun. If it is original to it someone has unsuccessfully tried to enhance it. Same goes for the side plate, carving and cheek inlay. Several men apprenticed under Sheets and the original configuration of this gun, whatever that was could have come from that shop. None of them would have produced this piece as it is now. Different opinions might be made when gun is in hand.

[120RIR]

Thanks to all that chimed in on this.  Yep...I noticed all of those details mentioned once I had the piece in hand and couldn't agree more that there have been many and not altogether skilled hands in creating the piece as it now stands.  Too bad.  It probably started out life as a plain but otherwise decent Sheets rifle.  No big deal for me at least.  It will make a decent restoration practice piece.  Heck, if nothing else, the buttstock wood sure has some great curl to it!

[JTR]

Oh dear, Mr. 120RIR, looks like you got got on this one...... 
You've certainly scored well on others, so you knew this one was coming sooner or later.

But, it is an excellent practice piece, so have at it and fix all that is wrong with it!

John

[whetrock]

Even though this rifle is not all it might have been, I hope you will restore it and show your process and progress on here. The process should be interesting to watch.

[120RIR]

Yep...they can't all be winners, eh?  Sometimes poor auction photos work to one's advantage and other times not so much.  Regardless, yeah, it'll be fun to see what I can do with this thing.  If nothing else perhaps some day down the road someone will turn it into a nice wall hanger or a lamp!  Either way, better to hone one's restoration skills on something like this.   

[homerifle]

Yep...they can't all be winners, eh?  Sometimes poor auction photos work to one's advantage and other times not so much.  Regardless, yeah, it'll be fun to see what I can do with this thing.  If nothing else perhaps some day down the road someone will turn it into a nice wall hanger or a lamp!  Either way, better to hone one's restoration skills on something like this.   

If you haven't done much restoration work, you might want to start with something a little less work intensive. LOL! You got a good one the last go round.

[JTR]

I'll bet he'll have few questions, and I'll bet he'll have a pretty good idea of where to get an answer. 
John

[120RIR]

Oh you betcha'!  Once my shop is back together later this year I'll dive in and see what I can do.  I've also got a nice John Parks that had to be set aside for the the move from Californey to North Carolina but it's going to be a good fall and winter.  This will be a good practice piece so next time one of those Albrecht "attributed" rifle pops up I can do a decent job.   

[homerifle]

I looked at this gun a little closer and I have formed another opinion  on its origin. Any Maryland collectors on here might want to look and see what your observations are of this gun. I think I see an iron tip on the butt plate. The side plate and somewhat, even the patch box to me point toward Maryland, Emmitsburg and Hagerstown come to mind. I get my gray Maryland book out by Hartzler/Whisker and look through it. On page 286 is a very similar cheek carving by Christian Hawken. Anyone that has this book take a look and let us know what you think. By the way, the thumb piece connection, Shepherdstown Sheets aren't more than ten or fifteen miles away. Maybe I'm way off on this but it is a lot of fun trying to figuring it all out.

[120RIR]

There is indeed an iron tip on the buttplate.  What might the significance of that be even on a wreck such as this?