Chambers large Siler stiffness

[PEARL DRUMS]

Hello everyone. I recently acquired a new large Siler. When I manually trip the cock it takes a lot thumb pressure on the seer. My small Siler takes very little. I’ve done nothing to either of them other than basic grease and oil. What can I do to lighten my large Siler up? I’m new at this game, so go easy on me please. Thanks for any advice.

[Bob Roller]

I was a lock maker for decades and what happened with your lock is a combination of two things.One is a strong mainspring and the possible steep angle of the full cock on the tumbler.One other thing,maybe is that the sear spring might be tpp strong but this sounds like a mechanical problem and the preload at full cock on the mainspring.There is a big difference in a stiff spring and a strong one.
Bob Roller

[Steeltrap]

In order to check what the sear spring "adds" to the trigger poundage, couldn't you remove the sear spring, then set the sear manually when you cock the hammer?  Outside of the firearm of course.

Then you could "test" what it takes to release the hammer with no sear spring involved. Of course, the sear spring is always going to increase the poundage on a lock.....but if your spring is heavy, this may lead you to determine that.

[Ky-Flinter]

Steeltrap, that's a good idea.  Thanks.

Ron

[PEARL DRUMS]

Thank you for the replies. I think I’ll remove the seer spring and test it. That’s an easy experiment to try first.

[Jakob]

I have no other locks to compare with, but it certainly takes a fair amount of force on my large Siler as well.
However, no issues when shooting it. (I'm using set triggers, so that may hide any issues?)

[PEARL DRUMS]

I intend on using set triggers with this lock. That’s what made me think it was too stiff for the trigger. I do feel better knowing yours is similar.

[whetrock]

In general, you want the sear spring and sear engagement to be no stiffer than is needed for safety.
But as for whether or not it will work as it is with your triggers, that's not hard to test. Put a flint-sized piece of wood in the jaws of the cock (not a flint, lest it cut you), and while wearing a pair of leather work gloves (so you don't get pinched), you can set the lock and set the trigger and then just hold the trigger bars up to the sear and then trip the trigger. The rear trigger bar should pop up and release the sear, even if you are just holding the lock in your hands. (Just try to keep your fingers out of the way of the cock and the frizzen movement.)

[Steeltrap]

(Just try to keep your fingers out of the way of the cock and the frizzen movement.)

Sounds like you may have some experience in that "watch your fingers" thing.   

[Pete G.]

We just about all have.

[bama]

You need sear spring to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch. Without the sear spring the main spring will over power the tumbler and the sear nose will not stay in the full cock notch. Without the back pressure of the sear the lock will not work. The trick is to make the sear spring just strong enough to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch and no more.

The biggest thing about the Siler locks that makes for a hard trigger pull is the full cock notch design. It is an actual notch. This means you have to apply enough force on the trigger to pull the nose of the sear out of the notch for the sear to release the tumbler. The only way to fix this is to reconfigure the full cock notch on the tumbler to do away with the notch. Care must be taken when doing this because a little to much removal can make for an unsafe lock.

I have done on every Siler lock I’ve used over the last 20+ years. Siler locks are great locks and will give you years of trouble free service. They do not need a lot of polishing of the internals, the main spring is powerful and the sear spring is usually just right. Occasionally I have to tweak the sear spring but not too often.

If you have a hard trigger pull on a Siler lock, look at the full cock notch first. After addressing the notch if you still have a hard trigger pull then tweak the sear spring to lighten the tension of the spring. If you still have a trigger pull problem polish the tumbler shafts, the tumbler shaft holes in the bridle and the lock plate. Lube everything up good and enjoy a very pleasant unset trigger pull. Just be careful with the full cock notch.

[recurve]

I send all my locks to Brad at cabin creek   1 small siler, 1 golden age , a large deluxe ,a Dale Johnson( very stiff)now nice and an l&r (needed lots of work)
I now ask brad to buy and tune locks for me and buy direct from him already tuned  (he just picked 1 from Barbie at Kempton, his first cnc siler for me )
while I was outside smashing rocks sweating demoing gun flint knapping 

All my locks are improved and are easier on flints after the Brad treatment (the Dale Johnson really improved a lot, from stiff trigger pull to Very pleasant) 

[PEARL DRUMS]

Great information guys, thank you. Do mind telling me what Brad charges as an average? I was considering sending it his way. But I will say I’m a very stubborn “do it myself” minded fella. Tried changing that but it’s hard to shake.

[Bill in Md]

You need sear spring to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch. Without the sear spring the main spring will over power the tumbler and the sear nose will not stay in the full cock notch. Without the back pressure of the sear the lock will not work. The trick is to make the sear spring just strong enough to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch and no more.

The biggest thing about the Siler locks that makes for a hard trigger pull is the full cock notch design. It is an actual notch. This means you have to apply enough force on the trigger to pull the nose of the sear out of the notch for the sear to release the tumbler. The only way to fix this is to reconfigure the full cock notch on the tumbler to do away with the notch. Care must be taken when doing this because a little to much removal can make for an unsafe lock.

I have done on every Siler lock I’ve used over the last 20+ years. Siler locks are great locks and will give you years of trouble free service. They do not need a lot of polishing of the internals, the main spring is powerful and the sear spring is usually just right. Occasionally I have to tweak the sear spring but not too often.

If you have a hard trigger pull on a Siler lock, look at the full cock notch first. After addressing the notch if you still have a hard trigger pull then tweak the sear spring to lighten the tension of the spring. If you still have a trigger pull problem polish the tumbler shafts, the tumbler shaft holes in the bridle and the lock plate. Lube everything up good and enjoy a very pleasant unset trigger pull. Just be careful with the full cock notch.

What this guy said!.....perfect explanation!

[B Kauffman]

You need sear spring to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch. Without the sear spring the main spring will over power the tumbler and the sear nose will not stay in the full cock notch. Without the back pressure of the sear the lock will not work. The trick is to make the sear spring just strong enough to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch and no more.

The biggest thing about the Siler locks that makes for a hard trigger pull is the full cock notch design. It is an actual notch. This means you have to apply enough force on the trigger to pull the nose of the sear out of the notch for the sear to release the tumbler. The only way to fix this is to reconfigure the full cock notch on the tumbler to do away with the notch. Care must be taken when doing this because a little to much removal can make for an unsafe lock.

I have done on every Siler lock I’ve used over the last 20+ years. Siler locks are great locks and will give you years of trouble free service. They do not need a lot of polishing of the internals, the main spring is powerful and the sear spring is usually just right. Occasionally I have to tweak the sear spring but not too often.

If you have a hard trigger pull on a Siler lock, look at the full cock notch first. After addressing the notch if you still have a hard trigger pull then tweak the sear spring to lighten the tension of the spring. If you still have a trigger pull problem polish the tumbler shafts, the tumbler shaft holes in the bridle and the lock plate. Lube everything up good and enjoy a very pleasant unset trigger pull. Just be careful with the full cock notch.

Agreed.

I had built a .45 with a large siler and single trigger that either wore because the tumbler wasn't hard enough or it was and I just wore it out. I mean I shot that gun a TON!
I recently had a mishap and realized it is no longer safe in full cock position. So I deepend the notch and angle with a pferd diamond file and its good to go.  But its closer to 2 lbs rather than 1 lb. I liked it that light, single trigger too. I won a number of shoots with that gun. 

[PEARL DRUMS]

Sounds like I need to send this to Brad. Considering this will be a winter build and I’m in no hurry. I did some polishing and greasing and it decreased the needed pressure by 50%. Still not as light as my small Siler deluxe. I never touched that one. Grease and go.

[recurve]

Just got the call from Brad his statement is  THIS IS THE BEST LOCK SILER/CHAMBERS EVER BUILT! 
It's smooth as glass and all the tolerances are tight!

But it still can use some Brad TLC for the springs balancing and frizzen angle to be easier(longer lasting )on the rock/flints

                                                                  WELL DONE CHAMBERS(thank you Barbie) 


On my way to pickup my lock a CNC Brad improved Large siler O-boy like Xmas in July
Cabin Creek here we come only 2hr ride in AC