Front sight geometry?

[Jakob]

Is there a good breakdown somewhere of the advantage and disadvantages of the various front sight designs?
I've seen a large variety of angles & shapes and I'm trying to find the 'best' historical option.
I suppose similar applies to rear sights.

[smylee grouch]

Good topic! There are so many possible options.
L

[Jakob]

Maybe I should make this a more leading question:

What's your favourite sight and why?

[smylee grouch]

Things to consider, what, where and when the gun will be used. What shape can the user see the best in the rear sight 

[rich pierce]

The “best” historical options are sights from guns made in the 1800s. Earlier guns have low narrow sights that are awful for old eyes and heated up barrels. Most 1700s American flintlock rifles have silver front sights 1/8” tall or less. Rear sights are similarly low with a tiny triangular slot.

[Daryl]

Good questions, smyleeG.
For me(75yrs old) I've needed glasses to see well in distance since 40yrs old. Still don't need them for driving, but to currently see at 20/15(better than 20/20) I need glasses. I can see the sights slightly better with them, than without. My close range vision sucks.
I see the wide English V and 1/16" bead front sights better than a U or V sight with a blade front. With the V or U rear sights  there is a lot of fuzziness and multiple heights on the rear sight. The front blade's 45 degree angle on the back, shows up nicely, but the rear sight is hopeless.
The WIDE V is quite sharp and that is why it(.69) is my favourite match rifle.
Its English design also suits my manner of hold and my physique.

[Kurt]

I'll say this and then ask a question. If I want to hit the bullseye of a target, I want a straight vertical black front sight post that fits between the two sides of the rear sight well enough that I can see it is centered. Or. that same sight shows up in a rear aperture. Now the question. When light conditions aren't the best and I am looking through the rear buck horn and a shiny blur shows up at the bottom of the slot, how well am I lined up, and is that the historical equivalent of today's fiber optic?

[Daryl]

I don't use shiny blurry sights, so can't answer that weird question.
I also don't use buckhorn sights (any more).
When I did, they had a "v" and the front sight was a blade  the top of which was held level with the top of the notch, not buried.
As noted, cant use V or U notch sights any more. They are too blurry too indistinct.

[smylee grouch]

[Scota4570]

I used wide front sights, about 0.1",  I make them about 1/4" high, maybe a little less.  I sight in so that the ball hits on the top of the blade at 50 yards.  A black sight on a black target is a problem.  I use a fine file to just take the black off the top rear corner.  That appears as a glint of silver against the center hold on round paper target.  It also works for the novelty targets.  I no longer sight in to take a 6:00 hold on the aggregate targets.

The sun at my range is right in your face during the winter.  At times I have not shot because the sights were invisible.  The above is my best solution. 

For the rear I use either a partridge style square notch or a 60* V. More and more I make the 60* notch with a safe side needle file.  Accurately making the square notch is not a trivial task.  It shows when it is not perfect.  I see no accuracy disadvantage to the 60* notch. 

For pistols I make them like modern sights. 

[smylee grouch]

It might be hard to see in my photo above but like Scott trying to see that black or even brass sight against a dark target in fading light was getting tough so I put a" speck " of silver on the top corner  of the sight. It helped but white finger nail polish might be even better

[Daryl]

The 45 degree slanted rear of the brass bead front shows like a beacon on the fur of an animal, deer, bear, elk or moose always
Shooting targets is different. For those shiny targets, I carry a "dry errace" felt pen for the front sight. Instant flat  blackened blade or bead easily replaced or wiped off with a thumb.
The permanent felt pens leave  a shiny sight, better, but no where as distinctive as the dry terrace felt pen.
Flat black means it does not reflect ANY light. That is important.

[B.Habermehl]

I like a brass front sight similar to Scota4570’s drawing. With a bit more slope facing the shooters eye. I polish the face, facing the shooter. If too shiny for conditions, a swipe with a black marker takes care of the problem. Conversely a couple of swipes with a green scotch right pad scrap shines it up for hunting. This front sight is plainly visible in any legal shooting hours here in pa. This has been my go to for the past 20 years or more. BJH

[Scota4570]

I have cut a tiny slot near the top rear edge of the front sight. I used a milling machine and a dremil diamond cut off wheel I filled that with silver solder.  I then filed the back edge of the sight forward to make the sliver of silver to the top rear edge. 

I bet if a guy was handy with fiddley work a small hole could be drilled in the same location.  Then brass or silver wire could be inserted in the hole and soldered or loctited.  Then dress the back edge to put the wire on the edge.  If it was left wide the sides could be dressed down to center the wire dot. 

It is a lot easier to just touch the edge with a fine file or a stone to expose some bright metal. 

[Daryl]

With a polished brass bead, 45 degree flat angled rear surface, rubbing it with my thumb brightens it up.

[Wingshot]

With a polished brass bead, 45 degree flat angled rear surface, rubbing it with my thumb brightens it up.

Following this topic intensely, I have to ask when you say bead I envision a round brass BB style found on a shotgun rib. If you mean blade, are you reshaping the shooters face of that sight to a 45 degree angle?

[Scota4570]

I suppose we need to specify if we shoot paper or plink, smooth bore or rifle.  I can not see how a shotgun bead on a rifle would give best accuracy.  I also imagine the the angle of the sun to the bead would probably change the point of impact with a bead.   

[Daryl]

With a polished brass bead, 45 degree flat angled rear surface, rubbing it with my thumb brightens it up.

Following this topic intensely, I have to ask when you say bead I envision a round brass BB style found on a shotgun rib. If you mean blade, are you reshaping the shooters face of that sight to a 45 degree angle?

Bead as in tapered brass round stock, with a 45 degree angle on the back facing the shooter. The bead's rear surface, although round, is flat, just like a blade. It reflects light in exactly the same way. It is sighted, so the ball hits exactly in the middle of the bead, not on it's top edge nor inches above.

[Jakob]

With a polished brass bead, 45 degree flat angled rear surface, rubbing it with my thumb brightens it up.

Following this topic intensely, I have to ask when you say bead I envision a round brass BB style found on a shotgun rib. If you mean blade, are you reshaping the shooters face of that sight to a 45 degree angle?

Bead as in tapered brass round stock, with a 45 degree angle on the back facing the shooter. The bead's rear surface, although round, is flat, just like a blade. It reflects light in exactly the same way. It is sighted, so the ball hits exactly in the middle of the bead, not on it's top edge nor inches above.

I've seen those before, although not in that detail and that actually looks very good. I will make one of those, once I figure out what height I need my sight to be.

[Wingshot]

Thanks for clearing that up for me! Didn’t know there were sights like that.

[Daryl]

They can be used with a U or V notch, but the wide V (English Express Sight) design is best imho.
One gun writer many years ago, made a statement (he was being paid by the word, I expect) that the English Express sights
were only good for out to 25yards and offered poor precision beyond that. Note that many of the modern English Rifles with Express Sights have sight leaves marked to 500yards.
In retrospect, I have made groups with my rifle (pictured aimed at the sofa) of 1" to 1 1/2" at 100 meters (109yds) off the bags with that rifle. The only picture I have of
a group, was one day headed out hunting, stopped at the range and asked a fellow if I could put a couple onto his target "just to check my sights". He said "OK, but can you even hit that little target without a scope"?
He was shooting a scoped '06.
Appears I was a little right of center. Might have been the wind. My Express sights with 3 leaves are sighted only to 200 meters.

[Wingshot]

They can be used with a U or V notch, but the wide V (English Express Sight) design is best imho.
One gun writer many years ago, made a statement (he was being paid by the word, I expect) that the English Express sights
were only good for out to 25yards and offered poor precision beyond that. Note that many of the modern English Rifles with Express Sights have sight leaves marked to 500yards.
In retrospect, I have made groups with my rifle (pictured aimed at the sofa) of 1" to 1 1/2" at 100 meters (109yds) off the bags with that rifle. The only picture I have of
a group, was one day headed out hunting, stopped at the range and asked a fellow if I could put a couple onto his target "just to check my sights". He said "OK, but can you even hit that little target without a scope"?
He was shooting a scoped '06.
Appears I was a little right of center. Might have been the wind. My Express sights with 3 leaves are sighted only to 200 meters.



Now you’re just showing off😆😆😆

[hudson]

With me no hunting anymore mostly, silhouette and bench looking for the magical load. I have always preferred the so-called partridge sight as I recall they call it, more or less square notch and blade. Through the years I keep widening opening the notch in the rear sight for more light now over a 1/8 inch makes seeing the front blade allot easier. Now at 85 something else is needed thinking the wide open V express sight. I haven’t decided on a bead or post front thinking long range accuracy, thoughts.

[Hungry Horse]

 As a young man I shot with the “patridge” sights because that’s what everyone was recommending. But, as I aged I found them harder and harder to get tight groups with it. Then I read an article in one of Theodore Roosevelt’s books on shooting with poor eyesight, or old eyesight. His recommendation was a rear sight with a gradual “V” culminating in a “U” shaped slot that accommodated at least the lower 2/3’s of a round bead front sight. His poor eyesight was legendary, yet his shooting was as well. Add to this his family wealth, and ability to access the latest technology. I think it’s silly to keep reinventing the wheel. This sight works because it forces the eye to focus. The  “patridge sight” is nothing more than a “Garand” sight that is intended for run and gun combat.

Hungry Horse

[Tumbledown]

I have several rifles where the front sight is a brass blade shaped like Scota4570's drawing, and one where the blade is silver and rounded down along the rear edge. The silver one is hardest to see unless the muzzle is out in open light. I wonder if filing it to a straight profile would help.