3f for a .54?

[Wingshot]

I’m from the old school that was always told anything from .45-.50 and up should shoot 2f in their guns. That said I’m learning that many shooters are using 3f even in larger bored guns such as .62 caliber. I’ve got a recently completed Kibler WR in .54 and I’ve been shooting it a good bit trying to find the sweet spot. I’d be interested in hearing from anyone who’s using 3 f for a similar or same gun. My rifle sports a Green River barrel and I’ve been trying loads with 50-70 grains of 2f and getting ok groups. I played around with a 60 grain load of 3f a couple weeks ago on a target set up at 50 yards and was impressed with the group. I question if it would be an adequate hunting load? I don’t have access to a chronograph so I’m just driving in the dark. Input greatly appreciated.

[EC121]

You aren't using enough 2F. I have had good luck using 85gr.  Because it is a little slower,the recoil isn't as sharp as 3F.

[Birddog6]

I shoot 65 Grains of 2F Scheutzen in my .54 for target. Same load with 3F in Scheutzen for deer hunting. It is plenty for whitetail deer. Usually goes thru both sides if it don't hit a rib bone, or 1 side & is just under the hide if it hits a rib.  I have shot over 100 deer with that load & quit counting. Shoot same load in my Jaeger with 37" barrel & I.Haines with 38" barrel.  Hunted 19 years with those two rifles & shot allot of deer.  Only lost 1 & she went on another property we didn't have permission to go on.  It was my fault as I was hunting on the property line & should have left some cushion there.  Was a doe but it still bothered me I had wasted it. I am a meat hunter, I can't eat horns.

I have tried more loads long ago.  There was another close group in the 110 grain 2F range. But why shoot 110 grains if 65 grains does all I need ? And allot less recoil.

You mileage may vary.  I am prob wrong, I find out daily. 

[Wingshot]

Interesting, I should’ve mentioned I’m shooting Goex, I’ve got a few pounds so I’ve not tried any Swiss. Any marked differences observed using one or the other?

[recurve]

yup 3f works for me in 54

[Bill in Md]

I shoot 65 Grains of 2F Scheutzen in my .54 for target. Same load with 3F in Scheutzen for deer hunting. It is plenty for whitetail deer. Usually goes thru both sides if it don't hit a rib bone, or 1 side & is just under the hide if it hits a rib.  I have shot over 100 deer with that load & quit counting. Shoot same load in my Jaeger with 37" barrel & I.Haines with 38" barrel.  Hunted 19 years with those two rifles & shot allot of deer.  Only lost 1 & she went on another property we didn't have permission to go on.  It was my fault as I was hunting on the property line & should have left some cushion there.  Was a doe but it still bothered me I had wasted it. I am a meat hunter, I can't eat horns.

I have tried more loads long ago.  There was another close group in the 110 grain 2F range. But why shoot 110 grains if 65 grains does all I need ? And allot less recoil.

You mileage may vary.  I am prob wrong, I find out daily. 

I agree!

[Birddog6]

Interesting, I should’ve mentioned I’m shooting Goex, I’ve got a few pounds so I’ve not tried any Swiss. Any marked differences observed using one or the other?

The Swiss is a entirely dif. ball game.  I would cut the charge back 15-20% as Swisss is a sporting grade of powder & burns faster & with more pressure.  Now it does burn Clean, but I am cautious with it on large bores. I use it for the 40 cal & under rifle.  I use to take a .32 to the hunting came for the guys to plink with when not hunting. Shoot 3F Swiss  30-40 times a evening. Wet 4-5 patches with some of my liquid patch lube on a jag, swab it good & by the 5th patch the fouling was gone. I'd always cleaned it good when I got home, but this worked each evening for a week.   Swiss is awesome in small bore rifles. Some guys use it is large bores, but I never did. Your mileage may vary.
 

 

[Kurt]

I have a K WR 54, and while my experience with 3F is a small sample, as I shoot 80 grains of 2F in it, I have shot a couple loads of 3F and noticed an increase in recoil. Recoil, of course, is the equal and opposite reaction law, and an increase in recoil would indicate greater velocity in that the patched ball was the same.

[Stoner creek]

That Woodsrunner in 54 is really going to bark with those heavier charges. I’ve found that somewhere in the 65 grain 3f load (Goex) is performing well and bearable on the receiving end.
W

[Jakob]

On my Great Plains Rifle (.54), I've always gotten good group with booth Schuetzen and Goex at 70grains, with little difference between 2F  & 3F.
For hunting, I sight it in at 100meters with 90grains.

[elk killer]

killed lots of elk deer and a few bears with 80 grains 3fff goex,
prime with same powder, always worked well
in my .54

[Austin]

Does barrel length make a difference? Say 30-32” vs 40 something? Is 2f fully burned in a shorter barrel?

[Birddog6]

Bill Knight told me with Tight ball/Patch, all will be burnt up at around 18-21" depending on the charge.
Swiss will burn it on shorter distance as it burns faster.

[Wingshot]

Like Recurve I’m using a .530 ball and .020 patching. If things dry out I’m going to spend some time with a starting load of 60 grains 3f s and take some notes. Glad I posted this topic and knew I’d get good answers!

[MuskratMike]

To answer your question I have been using Goex 3F in everything from 32 caliber to 58 caliber. I have a couple of 54 calibers that i shoot a fair amount both at targets and gongs as well as hunting. 75 grains of Goex 3F will give you the same velocity as 92 grains of 2F. I use a greased .017-.018 ticking patch regardless of the season or what I am shooting at. I have had great results.

[Wingshot]

To answer your question I have been using Goex 3F in everything from 32 caliber to 58 caliber. I have a couple of 54 calibers that i shoot a fair amount both at targets and gongs as well as hunting. 75 grains of Goex 3F will give you the same velocity as 92 grains of 2F. I use a greased .017-.018 ticking patch regardless of the season or what I am shooting at. I have had great results.

Exactly what I was looking for Mike, I’ll post back after I get another range day, my biggest concern was velocity and energy and I think you answered that well. Appreciate everyone’s help!

[Bull Shannon]

I’m from the old school that was always told anything from .45-.50 and up should shoot 2f in their guns. That said I’m learning that many shooters are using 3f even in larger bored guns such as .62 caliber. I’ve got a recently completed Kibler WR in .54 and I’ve been shooting it a good bit trying to find the sweet spot. I’d be interested in hearing from anyone who’s using 3 f for a similar or same gun. My rifle sports a Green River barrel and I’ve been trying loads with 50-70 grains of 2f and getting ok groups. I played around with a 60 grain load of 3f a couple weeks ago on a target set up at 50 yards and was impressed with the group. I question if it would be an adequate hunting load? I don’t have access to a chronograph so I’m just driving in the dark. Input greatly appreciated.

All I can offer on the subject is that the choice of 3f or 2f is it will depend on the rifle itself. If you are getting good accuracy using one then there's no reason to switch.

As an example, my .54 Lyman barreled Franken gun, with it's 1/48 twist rate is happy and accurate shooting PRB using 75-85 grains of 2f but doesn't have the same accuracy with the same charge of 3f. Now, I had a Great Plains Hunter fast twist barrel mounted on an old Cabellas stock. That 50 caliber absolutely needed 3f powder under either a conical and fiber wad to shoot decently. 2f was all over the place; it absolutely hated it. But 95 grains of 3f was a on hole load at 75 yards all day. Recoil was a bit much but it was accurate.

[Birddog6]

Just some suggestions on working loads.

Do all shooting off Sand Bags front & rear.  Eliminate human error.  And I have heard it all before, I
am good & I am solid & I don't move & yadda yadda yadda.  B S.  I have proved it over & over again outshooting others with their own rifles ON sand bags.   
Use the Sand bags.
A Steel or Concrete bench is the best.
Shoot small of Bullseye you can see.  Actually you do not want to hit the bull, it distorts the sight picture.  You can move sights later.  I usually tap my sight right or left of the bull.
Shoot 3 shots & change the target. Only 3. You can plainly see 3. Write ALL the details on the target.
Go up 5 grains & repeat.  Then again & repeat, Then again & repeat.
Shoot 4-5 dif loads & then compare the groups.
Now change Patch material or lubes or both. Do everything all over.
Rarely, but once in a while you hit the magic combo soon. Sometimes it take s me 3-4 shooting sessions.
When you pick the BEST load, now do it all over & start below a grain & go up 1/2 grain under that load & increase up 1/10 th of a grain to the load & past til 1/2 grain past it. til you find The Load.
But there is a magic load for every barrel, I believe.
I start at 25 yrds.  If it is not one hole group of 3 at 25 yrds, it is not even considered & I go on.
If you are in a hurry, don't even go, you are just wasting your time & supplies.

Your mileage may vary.

Now one guy told me "Hey, that is just too much shooting".   I said OK, don't do it.  I prefer 1"
groups. Others are happy to hit a 8" pie pan at 50 yards.  It IS up to you.

[Wingshot]

Birddog6, good advice except I’ll suggest not playing around with 1/2 grain to a grain tweaking. BP is inefficient by its nature and 5 grain adjustments will impact results. I personally am not shooting for scores or prizes, strictly a hunter and occasional woods walk participant. Putting the time in and bagging your rifle, absolutely. I typically don’t “swab” the bore during a range session and my patch and ball combos are easy to load yet tight enough to keep down the fouling.
  Might actually get to put a few hours in today, report back later!

[Bob Roller]

I have never used Swiss 3fg in a muzzle loader but in a 40 caliber BPCR I built it had more punch and the bullet weighed over 400 grains.One thing I did notice was that fouling was more of a crust  than anything else I had experienced.The trajectory was flatter with the Swiss than with the GOEX.I wish GOEX would copy the Swiss formula but the last thing needed is a total shutdown of black powder production here in the USA.I used 3fg in every black powder gun from a 10 gauge shotgun and every rifle caliber 58 and below using a ball and the breech loaders using bullets that weighed 550 grains.My Whitworth semi military target rife liked 75 grains of  DuPont/Goex 3fg and the bullet was old Lyman number 451112 weighing about 600 grains which is a lubricated type.
Bob Roller

[Wingshot]

Think she’s dialed in. That fouling shot at 10 o’clock is no surprise, I like an easily managed patch/ball load whether in range shooting, plinking or a woodswalk. Next trip out I’ll use a .535 ball with the same patching as my first shot. I’ve done similar with my .50 cal for years. Time to move out to 50 yards as well as some offhand practice, fall is coming at us like a speeding train!

BTW I’m shooting 25 yards off bags with the above target. .530 RB not .503😆

[Birddog6]

My .54 deer rifle will shoot the .535 in a tighter group than the .530's, but it is harder to load. When I am deer hunting with it, I want to reload quickly & not stand there with a short starter pounding a ball in. I have the Rice swamped barrel coned on that rifle & it load fairly easy.  It shoots better than I can hold it.

[Wingshot]

My .50 cal. Lyman GPR always threw a wild one from a clean barrel using .490’s and after that it printed well. Last year I started using a .495 in a clean bore and kept my block full of patched .490’s. I’ve not tried a coned bore yet but I’m right there with you in the hunting scenario.

[smylee grouch]

I shoot 100+ of Swiss 1&1\2 in just about every thing I have 50 and up. They shoot flat, straight and close together. Slow twists with tight combos.

[Birddog6]

My .50 cal. Lyman GPR always threw a wild one from a clean barrel using .490’s and after that it printed well. Last year I started using a .495 in a clean bore and kept my block full of patched .490’s. I’ve not tried a coned bore yet but I’m right there with you in the hunting scenario.

I had a .54 cal flintlock GPR many yrs ago, when they first came out. Kept it at the hunting camp for others to try out that never had a flintlock & for a backup rifle. .535 ball & 65 Grains of FFF Goex.  I had a Lyman Peep sight on it & it would shoot 1" groups at 100 yards off sand bags & a concrete shooting bench. I would just pour a charge in it & fire it into the ground just to foul the barrel, then go to swabbing & shooting. Otherwise it would fling 1st shot out about 1 to 1 1/2" from the group. Very consistent lil rifle.  I bought it for nothing at a gun show, new in the box, for $125.  The guy had it marked $200.  I said $200 for a FLINTLOCK     He said OK, give me $ 125. & I did. He said nobody wants it because it is a flintlock.  And we all know they are so unreliable