Vent Liner Selection for Notched Breech Plug?

[Toddsndrsn]

I can no longer avoid the inevitable on my pre-carved stock.  I moved the barrel as far back as reasonable without opening up the barrel channel to the point that it would be unsightly.  The center of the pan still sits about 1/4" behind the face of the breech plug.  This is going to be first experience with drilling a vent liner as well as notching the breech plug.

My plan as of right now is going to be to leave the breech plug installed, drill the liner in the pan center and just passed the thickness of the barrel to mark the breech plug then remove breech plug to file a notch into it using a half round jewelers just passed the center of the breech plug face.  Is this a reasonable approach or is there a better way to accomplish this task?  What challenges should I expect or is there anything else I should know before I commit to this approach?

I purchased a 1/4-28 thread, slotted vent liner..  My thought was that I would be able to remove the vent liner for cleaning, but my hand drill skills have me second guessing.  Would a white lightening liner be a better choice for this task where it can be filed flush with the barrel?  The barrel is a 38" Rice C Weight “Transition” barrel.

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Todd,

(I have removed the first paragraph of my original post as Birddog6's process listed below is much better.)

I would notch the plug face less than half way across the face, maybe a third of the way.  Depends on the diameter of the plug, where on the side of the plug the touchhole liner hits, etc.

As far as cleaning, I don't like taking the TH liner out every time.  Too many bad things can happen, threads wear out, screwdriver slots get boogered up, etc.  I have a Whitelightenin TH liner in my main rifle and I remove the barrel to clean it.  I put the breech end in a coffee can of luke warm water and a little dish soap and hydraulic the water in and out of the barrel with a patched jag.  The resulting jet of water cleans all the places the patch can't get to.

Now, with all that said, please have a look at my reply in your earlier post about swamped barrel inletting....  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84049.msg838120#msg838120

I've been where you are now.  Good luck, however you decide to go.

Ron

[Birddog6]

It is simple. If the lock is preinlet, it is where it is.
On yours, the barrel is not back far enough.  I have build over a dozen of Dunlaps stocks & ALL of them need to be moved back. Same with Chambers. Same with Tip Curtis. Same with Pecatonica.
Do lock inlet 85% of the way.
Move barrel back to proper position.
Put tang on barrel & inlet tang with barrel on it.
Bend & shape tang & install underlugs & inlet them & pin the barrel to the stock.
Now finish inletting the lock.
Now do the Tang to Triggerplate bolt.

Note:  When you do drill the vent liner. Drill the barrel first, then put the pipe plug in & ease the drill bit in & mark where it will hit the breechplug.  DO NOT, as in DO NOT attempt to drill them both at same time.  The drill bit will deflect off the face of the breechplug & you will have a oblong hole & missing threads for the vent liner.  Do a 1/4" vent liner.  Then if you screw it all up you can go to a 5/16 vent liner.   If you are notching the breech plug face, I would use a modified Ampco bronze vent liner.

This is what can happen when one drills a vent liner with a breech plug in it.  The plug pushes the bit over & you end up with a oblong hole. That means you have Partial threads for the vent liner.  NOT GOOD.  You want FULL thread engagement.  This was brought to me for a fix, had to go to a 5/16" vent liner to get full threads.

[J Shingler]

Another 1/4" back on the barrel is not going to change the barrel inlet significantly. I have done what your talking about as well, but best to avoid it. As for touch holes I agree with KY flinter. You do not want to keep taking out a touch hole. I stopped using those slotted touchholes when Jim came out with the White Lightning. That are much  much better. Especially if you want to use the little clamp on hose with the O ring for cleaning. I use that at the shop but in the field just use a toothpick. Add water to the barrel after inserting a toothpick in the touch hole. Put your rod in the barrel pull the toothpick and flush.  Only remove a touch hole when the old one burns out. Any chance you are close to SW Ohio. I could help you.
Jeff

[Eric Krewson]

What you found is why I will never put together another pre-carve, especially one with a pre-inlet lock mortise.

Needless to say, this inlet took a lot more finagling than simply moving the barrel back. Along with moving the barrel back over 1/4" I dropped it down as far as I could and still had a 3/8" web below the barrel.



I am with the "move the barrel back where it needs to be" folk, I did this on the above inlet as well as adding a lot of wood and moving the lock inlet up where it needed to be. I am not a fan of notched breech plugs although a miss-drilled hole on my first build required an 1/8" notch.

My barrel was a C weight Rice in an Issac Haines rifle.

[Toddsndrsn]

Thanks everyone. 

I wasn't comfortable moving the barrel back any further, and having read many posts about notched plugs gave me a false sense of security.  I had weighed the options and felt notching the breech plug was more in my skill set than trying to move the barrel back further.  I've been looking at the decision for a while as you all can imagine.  Now I can say with certainty that I wish I had more confidence in moving the barrel.  Everything is inlet and 80% shaped so there's no turning back now unless I want to start a new stock.  I'd also go back and revisit my conversation with TVM and probably would have ordered a left handed kit from them instead.  I've had some valuable learnings from the project and this has been a refresher for the kit my brother has for me to finish from Cabin Creek. 

Regardless, I do think I am going to order a white lightening and probably move the vent slightly forward in the pan as well. 

J Shingler - Cincinatti is 3 hour drive west of me. 

[whetrock]

You don't actually have to have a liner at all. Leaving that out would simplify this situation. You can simply drill the hole and then cone it slightly from inside. And then create a matching notch in the face of the plug, as you mentioned already.

Most antique American-built rifles did not have touch hole liners. While using one can improve ignition, it's not the only way to "skin the cat". The older method is to cone the hole from the inside. There are a couple of methods and several tools for doing that. Some are antique design, and others more recent. Jim Everett has posted details about a simple one he came up with here. (The first image he shows is of an antique style tool. He then shows his greatly simplified solution.)

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=61857.msg620210#msg620210

[Birddog6]

Someone on here makes a lil ? reversed cutting tool to do that very thing. I bought one of them &
planned to use it in my next TN rifle.  You remove the breechplug, drill the vent hole, take tweezers
& install the lil cutting tool from inside to the outside thru the vent hole, then connect a drill to the
tool & cut the cone on the inside of the barrel. It basically makes the inside of the barrel similar to
a White Lightening vent liner.  I can't remember who made it, So someone speak up. I am thinking
Tom Snyder or DaveC?  One of these guys that do lil magical wonders with tools.

[bluenoser]

That would be Tom Snider.
His neat little tools are/were made in three sizes.  Have used them several times and they work great.

[whetrock]

That would be Tom Snider.
His neat little tools are/were made in three sizes.  Have used them several times and they work great.

Are they still available? (Short of making one yourself, I mean.)

[Birddog6]

I could not make it. Way too tedious & small. Cutting teeth on a lil tiny shaft & then
hardening & tempering, way out of my league. 

But I do plan on trying to use one.  It worked on my test barrel I tried.



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