Buying a Gun From Pictures, Instead of Looking at It

[Tanselman]

Last week-end I was at a small local gun show and ran across a man selling his old family rifle, but only had photographs of it. He had several views, and it looked like a good PA rifle with some butt carving and signed "L. Snider." I could see it had forestock damage and inlays missing, but I was told the inlays were all in an envelope that went with the rifle. It had its original "T. Ketland" lock, originally flint but later percussed. I got excited about the rifle and purchased it at a "reasonable" price. I picked it up the next day, and after a closer examination, found much more damage and missing inlays than I was told. True, I got an envelope of small inlays, but all were later brass inlays instead of coin silver and must have been mounted much later in old inlay mortises in an amateur restoration effort. Bottom line, all inlays in envelop were newer junk. Anyway, it was clearly signed and had a nice patchbox, carved butt, and nice inlay work around the tang, so I thought I'd post it before I get rid of it. And before you ask, yes, I have the guard, but it was broken and needs to be silver soldered before remounting. Barrel is 41 inches, originally about 42 inches, .42 caliber bore, 7-groove rifling.

Shelby Gallien

[Avlrc]

That's a nice find, even with the damage & poor inlays.

[A Scanlan]

Sort of like buying at an online auction.  Floor bidders have the advantage in most cases.

[120RIR]

A fair cautionary tale to be sure but depending on the price, it still seems like a nice score.  Where and when did the maker work?

[Daniel Coats]

Shelby I think you were kind to the seller when you didn't have to be. He was lucky to be dealing with someone like you.

[Tanselman]

The seller and his sister, who were apparently joint owners, said their ancestors were from Pennsylvania and brought the gun to Ohio last century. No one in their current generation knew much about the rifle, or wanted to keep the rifle, or knew how it got what appears to be post-use days stock damage. Someone took it to the Log Cabin Shop in Ohio 40+ years ago to see if it could be repaired, and the gun has an old Log Cabin business card with the name of a man who worked on old guns "back then" in Ohio, but apparently nothing was done, and no comment on card about the work needed. They both said the gun was made by Leonard Snider of Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, in the early 1800s, and the first, or one of the earliest, owner's surname was Elbel. But nothing documented, just family recollections. The only Leonard Snider I could find was listed as a barrel maker. A similar patchbox rifle in Chandler's original "Patchbox Book" is signed "J. Snider" for John Snider, obviously a related maker/relative. 

Shelby Gallien

[Scota4570]

The lack of description, misleading descriptions and inability to examine the guns is why I do not do on line auctions.  For instance I have the itch to own a Winchester 1892 carbine in 44-40.  The auction sites never give a meaningful description of the bore or a photo of the bore.  I want a shooter and a rat hole bore will not do.  Bore condition is a huge factor in the value of a gun.  "Strong rifling" means nothing. 

[Lead Snowstorm]

I buy almost all my guns online, without any in-person evaluation.  As long as you pay a price appropriate for the next lower grade or two, you will usually be OK.  Buying for what would seem a full-market value is extremely risky.  If you are purchasing something relatively common, avoid paying a premium and avoid auctions.  I do so only when I have been seeking/bidding on rare items for several years and have repetitively fallen short.  In those cases the market speaks - if I want such an item I’ll have to dig deeper.

[Woodpecker]

Even buying new is a gamble since the pictures are stock photos. I just returned a Pedersoli Deluxe Flintlock 20ga for a variety of issues. Out 50 bucks shipping for the lesson.

[Birddog6]

I have returned several.  I always Insist of a Full Refund if I am not satisfied, for ANY reason.

I understand people see things others don't.  But some people just out & out Lie, and will dump
their $#@* on you, if you let them.

[Carl Young]

Shelby glad it found a home with you. Now it will get the care & attention it deserves!
Hope to see you @ Tim's show next month.
Carl [KRA]