Wearing a single glove on the support hand for NMLRA offhand?

[Roger B]

Not to start an argument,  but I try to wear a glove on my support (left) hand due to my offhand position. I use a palm up up position & hold far back towards the lock. This often results in a "stingy owie" (as my patients  would call it) sometimes with flit & most of the 1075 plus caps. Pop a 1075 plus in the dark & see what I mean. It will definitely make you consistently wear shooting glasses! The glove is just there to protect my fingers & doesn't offer any assistance to my shooting otherwise. I know the NMLRA rules specify that the rifle must only be supported by the hands & a shoulder, but does anybody know about a specific call on this. If not, I will have to change position after 50 yrs of shooting. On second thought, I can probably miss equally well in any position!
Roger B.

[Daryl]

We had one Alberta club put on a match at Rendezvous B.C., who stated offhand meant off the hands. Elbow resting against the ribs or waist was not allowed.
Here is the position he explained and is the position Taylor and I use. I do not "see" a reason for not allowing a glove or shooting mit. When I shot with the mitt,
I was long enough in the body, I made a fist and rested the forend on my padded knuckles.  That position might not protect the fingers.
Taylor's 1853 Joseph Lang 16 bore

My "English" 14 bore

Disregard the sling and hand stop. 2 Shooting Mitts.

[Bill in Md]

So technically, if  "offhand" meant "off the hands"; can we assume that the butt of the rifle cannot touch the shoulder either?.....

[Daryl]

The gun has a butt plate, thus is shot off the shoulder, not the butt.

[Scota4570]

Any club can make any rules for informal matches. 

From the NMLRA rule book:

5610–OFFHAND POSITION
Standing on both feet, with no other portion of the body
touching the ground or any other supporting surface. The rifle
will be supported by both hands and one shoulder only. The
rifle must lie in the palm of the forward hand.

Since it must be shot with the palm on the stock a glove is a no-no?  Also not allowed are finger tips or a fist as used in other disciplines. 

Also of interest:
2350–SHOOTING JACKETS
Shooting jackets up to and including a large- or small-bore
jacket of standard weight will be allowed in all matches except
musket matches or as otherwise stated for a particular match.
Leather or international cinch type jackets are not allowed.

As to the elbow issue, it says nothing about your elbow may not touch your torso.  I'd have a very serious problem with someone that tried to enforce something so ridiculous a real match.   And for most us us the elbow does not touch anyway, the back of the upper arm does.  The point is mute.  Holding the forend way out is bad form and will hurt your accuracy.  You want structural support from bones, not muscles. 

My club shoots NMLRA aggregates.  Nobody uses jackets or gloves.  If legal that may explain why I struggle with the ML and not with service rifle. With my jacket and glove I's probably add 10% to my ML scores. 

[Roger B]

DARYL
Dang! My butt is where my head is!
Roger B.

[alacran]

5610–OFFHAND POSITION
Standing on both feet, with no other portion of the body
touching the ground or any other supporting surface. The rifle
will be supported by both hands and one shoulder only. The
rifle must lie in the palm of the forward hand.
The palm of the hand is going to have a glove on it if I am shooting and it is cold out. If it is cold enough my trigger hand will have fingerless gloves on.
Shooting off fingertips or of a fist raises the forearm of the rifle. The whole idea of the rule is so everyone is on the same playing field.
Daryl when I started shooting at Rendezvous, some clubs had that same ridiculous rule. At the same time, they allowed two hands to shoot a pistol.
To which I would claim Mountain Man's rule.

[Spalding]

There’s a few fellows that wear shooting jackets offhand at Friendship, and I seem to recall seeing a glove or two, but don’t quote me on that. I rest my rifle with my fingers curled and the forestock sitting in the crook of my hand between my thumb and index finger right in front of the lock, so I guess you could say it’s really not in the palm, but I’ve never seen or heard anyone complain about how someone holds a rifle. And yes I’ve seen some who rest their entire upper arm and elbow against their body, but I’m old and can’t contort myself like that.
You’ll see about every imaginable way to hold a rifle there.
Bob

[Daryl]

LOL Roger!
Generally, no one sets rules for standing/offhand shooting at Rendezvous B.C.
Here's a 25 yard offhand target I shot with the .69, in a contest with Taylor, to see who bought lunch.
Wish I could see well enough to do that today. This was about 10 years ago.
The position used, was the same as the pictures above.

[hudson]

At friendship on the line one time Mr. May range officer and friend informed me rules require you grip the forearm not rest it on the palm of the hand or finger tips.

[Jakob]

Shooting jackets would definitely be against the spirit of the rules in my book.

[Hungry Horse]

 Are we talkin’ about a Michael Jackson match or what? Do you have to do a special type of walk going to your shooting position? O.K. I give up. I’ll take my spanking now.

Hungry Horse

[Scota4570]

I assume we are talking about NMLRA matches and NMLRA rules.  The rules are finite and printed in the rule book.  There is not much room for debate. 

I find it amusing that so many of us encounter people who are making up special nonsense rules. 

[L. Akers]

If the NMLRA rules do not specifically disallow something, then it is permissible.  If a range officer says you can't wear a glove, make him/her show you in the rules that it is prohibited.

[alacran]

Daryl, that is a dandy offhand group.

[Roger B]

Hungry Horse:
If I walked like MJ I'd just look like a really constipated old man. Which I am. I'm not aging gracefully.
Roger B.

[Bill in Md]

Are we talkin’ about a Michael Jackson match or what? Do you have to do a special type of walk going to your shooting position? O.K. I give up. I’ll take my spanking now.

Hungry Horse

My thoughts exactly

[Hungry Horse]

 Roger, I think aging gracefully ranks right up there with Unicorns, and the Easter Bunny, when it comes to believability. I’ve began to revel when I wake up with aches, and pains, the mile markers of old age.

Hungry Horse

[BruceH]

You can wear a glove on your support hand in NMLRA matches.  Many shooters do.

[Roger B]

Many thanks! I appreciate the information.

[Scota4570]

Shooting for fun is great, I do it a lot.  Nobody at my club uses a shooting jacket or glove.  I never gave it a second thought. 

When it comes to serious matches where winning is the goal you take advantage of all helpful gear that is allowed.  Since it appears to be legal, I think I will try my jacket and glove that I use for service rifle with a ML.  I bet it will give several extra points on average.     

[alacran]

If the shooting jacket that you use for service rifle matches is the leather or international cinch type, those are not allowed for NMLRA matches. There are no rules regarding the use of gloves.

[BruceH]

alacran is correct about the NMLRA rules and jackets.  You can however order a ML approved jacket from Creedmoor.  It utilizes a zipper.

[Dphariss]

If the shooting jacket that you use for service rifle matches is the leather or international cinch type, those are not allowed for NMLRA matches. There are no rules regarding the use of gloves.

There is really only one style seen on experienced shooters in service rifle. Its impossible to be competitive in service rifle without one and they are the same in leather or nylon.

I think the NMLRA offhand rules are silly. But then in the flintlock era, from what I have read written at the time, offhand shooting was seen as a “poor test of a rifle”.  But maybe someone using the elbow on hip stance outshot the wrong guy someplace and the rules changed. In real life, like hunting, I shoot the way that will place the shot the best. But rules in rules and if you play their game you play their rules. We have a mix of styles at the matches we hold. Have not been to an actual rendezvous in years. But my problem is that I tend to revert to service rifle standing stance automatically… And may have to then correct myself.

[alacran]

Yep, you definitely cannot be competitive in Service rifle competition, without those heavy jackets, mine was heavy padded canvas. if you were comfortable wearing it, you were doing something wrong.
Offhand shooting was seen as a "poor test of a rifle" so said the guy who couldn't shoot offhand. If we are interested in testing a rifle, eliminate the human factor altogether.
I believe that once you have a rifle sighted in, all your practice should be offhand. If you can shoot offhand all the supported positions will take care of themselves.