G Goulcher Lock Date???

[gibster]

I had a guy send me a picture of a southern mountain rifle with a G Goulcher lock in it that he is considering buying.  All I am able to find on G Goulcher (with this spelling) was that he worked in England from 1856 till 1872.  There was a G Golcher working in NY City around 1840.  Both were past the flintlock era.  Does anyone have any info on another G Goulcher from an earlier date?  The current owner of the rifle thinks that it was made 1810 timeframe. The lock has the round tail that to me, would place it at the earliest around 1820.  The barrel is not signed so trying to determine when it was made would pretty much have to be from the lock style and name on the lock.  Any info on the name or dating of a round tail flintlock lock would be appreciated.

[Tanselman]

Any chance we can see the full lock, and how round the tail is? Southern guns seem to have a mind of their own at times, not always following the normal patterns seen in northern guns, even in locks. Without seeing the rest of the lock, I'd think 1820 might be a little generous, and it may be a bit later, 1825-1835.

Shelby Gallien

[gibster]

Shelby - Here is the only picture that I have showing the full lock. It's not a straight on shot, but all he had sent me.  Thanks.

[Tanselman]

Gibby,

I'm going to be a total @ss on this one. I think the side facing has been slabbed and a non-original lock mounted on this rifle. Three reasons for leaning this way: 1) too much dark color around the edges of the side facing, and more importantly, 2) the mortise edges around the lock plate are simply too perfect, too clean, to be as old as the gun. As you and I know, locks went in and out of guns over the years for repair and clearning, and mortise edges always got a bit nicked and dinged, especially on the back end where they were occasionally pried out. The mortise edges just look way to perfect, in my opinion, and 3) the flash hole is way off for this lock, or at least it looks like that in the last image.

The lock itself has ovality remaining in its tail and hasn't gone to a really rounded tail yet, so the 1820 date you first mentioned looks good to me... for the lock, but not necessarily the gun.

Shelby Gallien

[gibster]

Thanks Shelby. I had noticed the dark wood and that the pan looked to be lower than the side face of the barrel. I had sent him a message earlier to give me a call to discuss this with him, but haven't heard back yet. From this picture, I agree with your thoughts. I appreciate you sharing your opinion.

[JV Puleo]

The spelling is inconsequential. People often spelled their names in creative ways and not always the same.
The Goulchers were a large lock making family in the Black Country...the area around Birmingham where there were several villages that specialized in gun lock making.
The dates in most of the of the collector books are drawn from directories. These were not mandatory listings. You paid for a listing and if you were a tradesman that didn't feel he needed one, you didn't buy one. Hence while the dates show that, at least someone was listed between those dates they do not say if the person was active earlier or later.
At least one Goulcher emigrated to the US. There was a long thread on this forum years ago regarding him. The salient point we discovered was that several of his children were born in England while the youngest was born in the US. That leaves a fairly narrow date rang for his arrival. He did advertise that he "made" locks. My own reading is that he assembled locks, probably from parts purchased from his family in the UK. This would be consistent with the English practice where "lockmaker" were, more properly perhaps, "lock assemblers."

Going strictly by appearance, I'd place that one around 1825-1830, in the period when percussion caps were still not readily accessible everywhere....

[AZshot]

I'm glad you showed this lock, I have a similar one that I'm calling an unsigned Goulcher converted flintlock.  It's on a Southern rifle I have.  Perhaps it will help you and your friend with the rifle ID. 


I'm saying it was converted because of the filled holes (yellow arrows) and the decorative encised lines that stop where the frizzon spring would have been.  Also the crudely cut out top of the plate where the pan was removed. 

[JTR]

Garrett, Could we see the inside of that lock?
John

[AZshot]

I will see if I can get it out.  Stand by. 
Update - unfortunately it's rusted in pretty tight, and the slot is v-shaped on the screw.  I better leave it alone for now.  What would the interior tell you?

[whetrock]

There's an old thread on here from 2010 that addressed Golcher and Goulcher locks. I know some who have posted in this thread also posted in that one, so please forgive the redundancy. I wanted to link to it for the benefit of the newer arrivals.

One detail that I thought particularly interesting in that thread was a post by "ptk1126", quoting an article by Leech. ptk1126 commented:

            Leech also notes that "Geo. Goulcher was an infringement on the Golcher name."

I haven't seen Leech's article for myself.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11201.0

[Habu]

I haven't seen Leech's article for myself.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11201.0

I've got a pdf of the article I can email out--PM me with your email address and I'll get it sent. 

[scottmc]

I used a golcher on my Gillespie rifle.  The parts were from Chris Hirsch and were cast from an original in his collection.
The lock wasassembled by another from this group who goes by Clint.
Chris maybe could chime in here on how old he thinks his lock is and maybe it will get you close.