thoughts on this rifle? Reading? York?

[backsplash75]

I'd love to hear thoughts/opinions on origin, date of restocking and time period.

Reading, Pennsylvania flintlock long rifle, approximately .68 caliber, with brass furniture to include an engraved three-piece patchbox and tiger cherry stock with incised and relief carving, 43 1/2" octagonal barrel. Provenance: From the Collection of Jo and Jim Adams, York, Pennsylvania.

Condition
Request Condition Report
Buttplate - 1 3/4" w., butt is 4 3/4" h. Original finish. Reconverted, lock is replaced, restocked possibly by one of the Shrivers of York County.

[120RIR]

I wonder what about this rifle suggests it was restocked?  I hope some will provide insights.

[Shreckmeister]

Good question

[JTR]

For/if a restock, someone went to a lot of work to hide it.
I wonder if the crack in the stock behind the trigger guard is real, or faked? 
John

[whetrock]

For/if a restock, someone went to a lot of work to hide it.
I wonder if the crack in the stock behind the trigger guard is real, or faked? 
John

John, Are you seeing something that suggests a contemporary restock? Maybe I'm missing something?

[rich pierce]

It's a bit of an odd mix.  To me the furniture says Reading, the architecture as well, but the carving behind the cheekpiece is not screaming Reading specifically.  If a restock it may have been done in the period as suggested.  I see it as a desirable Golden Age rifle.

[Buck]

My first thought at first glance was Metzger. I can’t remember if he was a Lancaster or Maryland builder or both. The box IMHO isn’t York or Reading - could be a later addition? Interesting piece for sure - I like it.

Buck

[rich pierce]

My first thought at first glance was Metzger. I can’t remember if he was a Lancaster or Maryland builder or both. The box IMHO isn’t York or Reading - could be a later addition? Interesting piece for sure - I like it.

Buck

Metzger was both in Lancaster and later, Maryland, I believe.  Good call.

[Buck]

Rich,

I believe you’re correct, a reversal to the Westward migration. I also agree with the furniture less the box being from Reading - carving could go both ways. I like the rifle, its early - box could fall into the late Metzger Maryland category/ later addition. I believe his Son finished up his career in Maryland.

Buck

[JTR]

For/if a restock, someone went to a lot of work to hide it.
I wonder if the crack in the stock behind the trigger guard is real, or faked? 
John

John, Are you seeing something that suggests a contemporary restock? Maybe I'm missing something?

OOps, my bad. Neglected to read the entire description.

[backsplash75]

My first thought at first glance was Metzger. I can’t remember if he was a Lancaster or Maryland builder or both. The box IMHO isn’t York or Reading - could be a later addition? Interesting piece for sure - I like it.

Buck

Thanks for all of the input. I'm in the weeds when it comes to regional attributions for the less obvious things, so this rifle confused me when I saw the images and the attributions. The open top of the box reminded me vaguely of the much earlier 2 piece Jacob Bower/Schroyer box (2.25 wide butt on that one).

 Is it safe to say this is post Revolutionary War but likely pre 1800ish?

ETA some Metzgers with bio info:

https://aspenshadeltd.com/inventory_met.html

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/lot-553321.aspx

[Buck]

I think pre 1800 is safe, beyond that it’s speculation unless a rifles dated.

Buck

[B.Barker]

The trigger guard and side plate are very Reading "like". The carving and patch box don't look very Reading to me. I'm no expert by any means so take my thoughts for what they cost you.

[Daryl]

Looks like a nicely stocked, beautifully handling rifle, to me.

[eastwind]

I saw this rifle at the Pook and Pook Auction. It is, as many have said, a restocked rifle using Reading style parts. What should be of concern is the possibility that these parts were never on the style of the stock to begin with - that is, how does one know these parts were ever on the stock shown here? Or were they originally on a typical Haga later-style rifle (as they do appear to be of that era).
The rifle sold for a lot less than it should have, had in been in original condition that is, which indicates others suspected something questionable about the gun.
Further note the auctinoeer said it was a restock.

Patrick Hornberger

[Eric Kettenburg]

Frankly, to my eye, the buttplate, guard and sideplate and likely lock look like they came off of a rifle very similar to the first of the 'Hachen' or Haga or whatever type rifles George pictured in RCA1.  21 or 22?  Shorter barrel with fluted buttplate, percussion conversion (at the time).  I don't have the book in front of me.  But they don't look like late parts to me, they look pretty darned early.  I'm sure the side edges of the buttplate comb were filed down in the restocking, and probably the edges at the rear of the butt portion too.

I would love to be able to get parts like that without the hassle of making patterns!

[backsplash75]

Frankly, to my eye, the buttplate, guard and sideplate and likely lock look like they came off of a rifle very similar to the first of the 'Hachen' or Haga or whatever type rifles George pictured in RCA1.  21 or 22?  Shorter barrel with fluted buttplate, percussion conversion (at the time).  I don't have the book in front of me.  But they don't look like late parts to me, they look pretty darned early.  I'm sure the side edges of the buttplate comb were filed down in the restocking, and probably the edges at the rear of the butt portion too.

I would love to be able to get parts like that without the hassle of making patterns!

ETA RCA Vol 1 #20 is the rifle that remains percussioned in the series of Reading guns. Thanks for the info!

fwiw lock is a replacement per the auction listing

Reconverted, lock is replaced

[Eric Kettenburg]

Yeah, #20.  That is a very interesting rifle. 

[moseswhite]

Great looking rifle any way you look at it !!