Do you prefer captured keys?

[Robert Wolfe]

I slotted and pinned my TC Hawken back in the day when I built it back int he 70's.

[canadianml1]

Captured!!!!

[Dennis Daigger]

I should have added that had my key not been pinned it would have been lost and I would have been flying blind without a model for making a new one, a considerably more difficult task.

[STJ1954]

I am not expert on building muzzle loaders. I have built 2. First was TOW Hawken and then Virginia style flint lock. The Hawken has captured keys. It is a pin in the barrel channel. If it has a slot, you can go either way.

[Daryl]

Captured keys are the way to do, always. Too bad pins can't be captured, however, they can be sealed in with a rub of beeswax on the outside of the stock, with the pin just below the surface.

[Leatherbark]

Maybe you could just slot them so we could have an option.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I have always used captured keys with the pin under the escutcheon plate. For me this is the smart way to go. I would suggest that you slot the keys but not install the pin this way the customer can either install it or leave it out (include pin stock).

[T*O*F]

None of my original English percussion guns have the pin under the escutcheon plate. 
Fleener

There is a reason for that.  No one has mentioned and/or even noticed that the escutcheons on most continental guns are not screwed on, thus the pins are in the barrel channel.  I have mostly seen straight pins driven in, but have seen a couple that are screws.  The escutcheons on these guns have small posts on the backside and the ends are bent into a hook.  When installed, the wood closes around the hook when the inlay is tapped in place.  Even the cheapest Belgian guns were done this way.  Exceptions are late British rifles and some German guns which use screws.

[Jim Kibler]

Okay, captured it is!  I’ll make it so the customer can decide whether to install the pin or not.  Thanks!

[JPK]

Perfect, as expected!

[recurve]

If you ever have lost a key at a shoot/hunt you will  always prefer captured  keys.   I have  and now have pinned/ captured keys

[smylee grouch]

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, I would suppose. that a guy could pin through the barrel channel if you didn't want one under the plate since the keys will be slotted .

[Steeltrap]

I took my T/C Hawken kit rifle that I got in the late 70’s and just drilled a series of holes down the Wedge Key center. Then with a jewelers file I filed the slot smooth.

I drilled the small pin capture hole in the barrel channel. The first time I “tested” it I put the barrel in and pushed the key in.

Ok…that worked great.

Then I pulled the key back to remove the barrel….and the key was in just enough keep the barrel from coming out. Apparently I thought I had sufficient clearance….but not so much. When I pushed the barrel down it apparently “snapped” over the edge of the key.

When I tried to pull the barrel from the stock I could feel it was too much pressure and I feared cracking the stock. So, necessity being...you know...using a small diameter piece of steel I kept peening the end of the key until I could pull the barrel out. Trial and error error….but all ended well.

And then I had to pull the capture pin out to file the slot more. Well, since I initially seated the pin just below flush needle nose pliers could not grab it. So, I carved out enough wood on each side to grab the pin.

The screw in pin's are a far better idea......I wish I had known about that method earlier. But who thinks they will need to pull the wedge key out once it's in?  I figured I'd never have to pull it out.   I figured wrong.

[Dphariss]

Pinned for me. The English pins I’ve seen had threads on the pins that unscrewed from the wood. Like so…

This I like.

[Dphariss]

Like captured keys. For one thing its a sign of the well designed rifle. Makes it impossible to lose the keys. Nice when “away from home.”  And that was the Mountain Rifle’s intended use.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Captured wedges for certain!  Word of caution for those installing the keeper pins...pre--drill the holes for the pins in the barrel channel but just enough to go through the slot in the wedge/key, and into the wood below by a few thou.  If you are ham-fisted here, you'll drill right through the stock and out through the bottom.  My English guns have pins inside the barrel channel.  I have never seen an original with a pin under the escutcheon plate, but my experience is limited.
Jim, slotting the keys for your kit would save the builder a tedious job.  And would add a quality feature we all would appreciate.

[Jim Kibler]

Thank you all for the feedback, and suggestions.  This helps a lot!

[HighUintas]

I guess I'm the odd one out. I don't really care if the keys are pinned or not. If the key fits properly there's no risk of losing one, so I haven't seen a need.

[Snowmoon]

Love the idea of captured keys. If I had a J.K. Hawken (brilliant name, by the way), it'd be one small but important detail that added to the overall impression of quality and care.

[davec2]

Let me preface what I am saying here with the statement that I have zero experience with original guns with barrel keys and that I know what I have done on a few rifles now is not historically correct. In my experience I have not been talented enough to get the keys to consistently fit perfectly to begin with ....and when I have (mostly by accident) the fit eventually loosened by virtue of wear or humidity changes, etc., etc.  And it seemed to me that even if I captured the key, the fit (too loose or too tight) would still be an issue.  So I did this....take it for what it's worth.

From an old post of mine..........

Thanks to all of you for the help and advice on fitting up barrel keys.  I am trying all of them, but, in addition, I decided to modify the keys to include a fairly stout friction spring.  I cut a shallow slot in each key, made a leaf spring for each one and then riveted the spring in place using a brass tack as a rivet.  The keys slide in fairly easily but hold very firmly.  Not HC, I expect, but I like things that are self adjusting and won't be as subject to humidity and temperature changes as I have experienced thus far with these keys.