Hawken fullstock rifle in the December Rock Island Auction

[moseswhite]

I just wanted to let everyone know that the Hawken full stock in the December Rock Island auction in my opinion is a RESTOCK . The ramrod pipe spacing is unequal in the spacing between the pipes and the barrel key spacing is unequal as well . I have never seen a Hawken full stock that the spacing wasn't spot on and I have probably looked at over 30 of them. Also the stock is cracked very badly in the panel opposite the lock and also in front of the lock due to a huge knot in the wood . I would be surprised if the Hawken brothers would use such a defective piece of wood !

[moseswhite]

I posted this information to try to prevent anyone from getting taken advantage of on a misrepresented Hawken rifle.

[Seth Isaacson]

As an employee of Rock Island Auction Company, I can assure you that we welcome people contacting us so that we can help address any concerns or questions they may have as having the items in hand is more beneficial than reviewing photos online. Questions can be submitted to info@rockislandauction.com or while viewing the lot on the website via the questions tab.

[Jim Kibler]

Seems like pretty scant details to hang your hat on. 

[Tim Crosby]

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4096/3246/s-hawken-st-louis-fullstock-percussion-rifle

[rich pierce]

https://www.rockislandauction.com/catalog/4096 if you want to see the whole auction.

That stock looks like it has been around a long time. It’s been over-cleaned for sure. If it is a re-stock, it was done long ago during the gun’s working life. And though it’s odd that Sam would choose such a piece of wood, it’s equally odd that someone would restock a gun with that piece of wood.  Also odd that someone might change the spacing of the underlugs if re-stocking the parts.  I don’t feel certain one way or another. Is it the finest full stock S Hawken rifle I’ve seen? No.

There’s also a S Hawken squirrel rifle at that auction.
Here are the stamps.

[JTR]

That wood knot at the breech area certainly looks out of place, for any gun of that time period.
John

[mountainman]

It looks someone tried to add wood on top of the lock panels, right before where it's broken on the side of the barrel, there are also some visible cracks behind the lock area on around and top of the wrist area, that may be just cracks, or someone tried to add wood for a repair, if it was a repair, it's been done awhile ago.

[alacran]

There are a few criticisms of this rifle here that I think is 21st Century thinking. As far as the knot in the breech area goes, it looked tight at the time, and the rifle was not made to last 200 years. It is amazing that it has lasted this long. As far as the spacing of the wedges go, things happen and most customers would not have noticed or cared if they did. Symmetry in in hand manufactured goods was not to be expected.
The industrial revolution created the expectation of uniformity since it was a part of the process of making multiple goods.

[moseswhite]

A restocked rifle is worth considerable amount less than a rifle with the original stock , a sizeable amount for sure .I recommend
anyone looking to bid on this rifle to do their homework and examine the areas I mentioned and come up with their own conclusions . I'm sure Mr. Isaacson does a fine job on such a monumental task as he has to perform but I'm not sure how much knowledge he has about Hawken rifles, but I recommend him to check the measurements on the other 3 fullstock Hawken rifles they have handled in the last few years and come up with his own conclusions . Note that I do think it  was restocked during the period of use .

[moseswhite]

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