Trigger placement

[OLDSPARKY]

What is the best placement for the trigger to the sear?
Thanks

[whetrock]

There is a tutorial on that topic here.

Take note that vertical placement is also important. The front trigger has to have some wiggle room.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32152.0

[mikeyfirelock]

Keep in mind that point at which the trigger actually contacts the sear must have enough movement (and energy with a double set triggrr)  to make the sear move out of the tumbler  full cock notch and allow the tumbler to turn without engaging a half cock notch if there is one. ( hope Ive made sense here)
Mikeyfirelock

[OLDSPARKY]

Thanks again Whetrock!!

[Bill Raby]

I usually put it so the sear is about halfway between the front and rear trigger pivots.

[OLDSPARKY]

Thanks Bill  I enjoy your videos

[smylee grouch]

Most double triggers I have installed were set upoear was at the cross roads where the front blade and back blade make a " V ' when viewed from the side.

[satwel]

I align the screw that adjusts trigger let-off with the sear bar. Pretty much the way you have them in your photo. I don't know if that is correct but it has worked in every rifle I have built so far.

[L T Grey]

As several have said above, I've found line them up so the sear bar is centered above the adjustment screw. That is typically half way between the two triggers on a Davis double set.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Do you want to sometimes fire the gun without setting the triggers and have a reasonable trigger pull without a lot of creep?  If so, I am going to suggest a different approach.

dave

[OLDSPARKY]

Smartdog , doing it your way how much difference would there be between the two?,it would be nice if hunting not to have to set trigger and have a good single trigger pull!,  I target shoot more than I hunt

[Steeltrap]

Hi,
Do you want to sometimes fire the gun without setting the triggers and have a reasonable trigger pull without a lot of creep?  If so, I am going to suggest a different approach.

dave

I'd love to see your method of getting reasonable TP with a DST setup. I have pinned my single triggers so I end up with a 3-4LB pull. I don't target shoot a lot and for hunting in the cold with gloves, I like a little poundage.

I have (and now rarely use) my old T\C kit gun. I've disassembled the trigger and polished every contact point. The single TP dropped from 10-lbs to about 6-lbs. I don't like the DST when hunting as it's to touchy in the cold.

Maybe a separate thread on this?

[smart dog]

Hi,
I've posted this in other threads several times.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=83716.msg819783#msg819783

Whetrock provided a nice description of the triggers and the issues.  I am not going to repeat describing the triggers and their function. When I install double sets, I first grind the top of the rear lever down far enough that is does not interfere at all with the sear when the gun is being cocked.  It will pop up quite a ways under spring pressure so it does not have to be close to the sear when the lock is at rest.  After grinding the top of the rear lever I mostly ignore it and focus only on the front lever trying to position it as if it was simple trigger. Usually that means I want the sear to cross it about 1/2 to 2/3s of the way back on the lever.  So I place the front trigger as far back relative to the sear that I can and still have the rear lever hit the sear when it pops up. The top of the now ground down rear lever just has to hit the sear even if only the very end of the lever touches the sear.  That placement will usually give you the best trigger pull for the front trigger.  Because the levers pop up a tiny bit when the triggers are set, you usually cannot have the forward lever touching the sear when the lock is at rest otherwise you may not be able to set the triggers. However, the gap can be tiny leaving you just a little bit of creep.  I often replace the wire spring for the front trigger with a slightly stouter wire spring.  They are trivial to make.  That puts greater upward pressure on the front of the trigger causing the lever to pop up a tiny bit less when the triggers are set allowing you to position the lever a tiny, tiny bit closer to the sear bar and still set the triggers with the gun at half cock. All of this is made easier if the sear bar on your lock always returns to the same vertical position on the lock plate  when the lock is brought from rest, to half cock, and then full cock. If that position moves around, the process can be a bit more fiddly.

dave 

[smart dog]

Hi Steeltrap,
I can usually get the pull for the forward trigger to be about 2 lbs.  On the rifle below:




I was able to get the pull down to just under 2 lbs and if I was shooting it at targets, I would not use the rear set trigger at all. However, the owner really likes a very light trigger pull for target shooting and he is a very good shooter.

dave

[OLDSPARKY]

Once you determine where the trigger goes and have the inlet started do you take trigger apart to inlet?hope this makes sense

[Birddog6]

Hi Steeltrap,
I can usually get the pull for the forward trigger to be about 2 lbs.  On the rifle below:




I was able to get the pull down to just under 2 lbs and if I was shooting it at targets, I would not use the rear set trigger at all. However, the owner really likes a very light trigger pull for target shooting and he is a very good shooter.

dave

Mine usually end up about 2-3# on front trigger.  If you put them in like most do, it will be
about 10# on the front trigger & takes a gorilla to pull it.
 I played with this years ago when everyone said "That is just how it is with Double set Double
lever triggers. "  Oh B.S.  They just needed someone to sit down & work on them & work it out,
so as you have & I did as well.  It is not rocket science. 

[Bob Gerard]

I don’t think you should take the trigger apart.

[whetrock]

Some take the triggers apart, and some don't. I usually do take them apart and inlet the plate. That just makes it a little easier if the plate needs to be adjusted to the fit of curve of the wood. I think it also helps me get the trigger plate aligned like I want. After inletting the plate, I then put the large spring and its screw back in and inlet those. Then I put the triggers back in an inlet them. Finally, the small spring.

Take note that old rifles differed in how deep the builder inlet the set triggers. Some old triggers are flush with the wood, and others are set slightly below the surface. Was this a style issue, or were they mostly just concerned with making the triggers work correctly? I'm certain that they wanted the triggers to function properly, but beyond that, I don't know. Anyway, if you are trying to copy the work of a particular builder or school, you might want to pay attention to that detail on antiques.

[OLDSPARKY]

Thanks Whetrock , not trying to copy, just trying not to make a mess ! lol, couldn't figure out how to properly mark for inlet using the trigger as is, thought about taking a piece of stock and making it same width, length, and contour so I could use it to mark the stock, but I think taking it apart will be best.

[whetrock]

Thanks Whetrock , not trying to copy, just trying not to make a mess ! lol, couldn't figure out how to properly mark for inlet using the trigger as is, thought about taking a piece of stock and making it same width, length, and contour so I could use it to mark the stock, but I think taking it apart will be best.

Hey Oldsparky,
I haven't found it necessary to make a template out of metal stock, but I can imagine how it might be helpful. I have made templates out of paper card stock, as having some sort of flat template helps you draw lines on the wood and get things aligned linearly before you start cutting.

I file a slight chamfer on the sides of a trigger plate so that the plate tightens slightly in the mortise as it goes in. Same for the ends. This helps with the inletting, and it also keeps the plate from getting permanently locked in there if the wood shrinks.

When inletting something with a chamfer you have to start cutting just a bit inside the line and then let the fit and transfer color dictate the final cuts. My point is that I'd recommend against trying to make the first cuts equal in width and length to the edge of the trigger plate, and don't try to make the mortise square as it goes in. Rather, cut the initial hole slightly undersize and angle the cuts slightly inward. Then use transfer color of some type as things drop down into the hole. This last bit is probably obvious, but it's not obvious to everyone if they are still learning. 

[Birddog6]

Thanks Whetrock , not trying to copy, just trying not to make a mess ! lol, couldn't figure out how to properly mark for inlet using the trigger as is, thought about taking a piece of stock and making it same width, length, and contour so I could use it to mark the stock, but I think taking it apart will be best.

Well, I cheat on all of them.  I cut 1/8" off Both ends of the trigger plate. That way if I have to move
it, I just grab another trigger asm. & use it, cut as needed & move the plate the other way. Don't have
to mess with the inlet.
And I take ALL of the trigger assemblies apart & inlet just the trigger plate first, then assemble &
finish inletting.  Much easier to bend that plate bare & where you want, without all the parts on it.
They always want to bend at the weakest point, so you must remember that when bending it to the
contour of the stock.

You mileage may vary.

[OLDSPARKY]

Thanks Whetrock and Bird dog

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Most double triggers I have installed were set upoear was at the cross roads where the front blade and back blade make a " V ' when viewed from the side.

This is how I have always done it as well.  It is what Hershel House described in his video.  The only thing I have run into is the sear pushing down on the trigger making it impossible to set.  Usually this is fixed by filing the trigger down and adjusting the adjustment screw between the triggers.  It might be avoided all together by moving is forward some?

Cory Joe

[whetrock]

Most double triggers I have installed were set upoear was at the cross roads where the front blade and back blade make a " V ' when viewed from the side.

This is how I have always done it as well.  It is what Hershel House described in his video.  The only thing I have run into is the sear pushing down on the trigger making it impossible to set.  Usually this is fixed by filing the trigger down and adjusting the adjustment screw between the triggers.  It might be avoided all together by moving is forward some?

Cory Joe

I think the problem you are describing is just where the trigger goes through what I called the mid-way position. Moving the trigger forward slightly would give you a bit more clearance, but it would also increase the trigger pull on the front trigger. So it's a balancing act. Cutting the top of the front trigger bar down a bit so as to provide clearance is the most commonly used solution.



This diagram shows a Davis trigger as it is sold by Davis, without any changes to the trigger bars. Jim Chambers also sells the same Davis trigger, but with taller trigger bars.  I would assume that the taller trigger bars generally require that they be filed down a bit, etc. (The taller trigger bars allow more modification of the angle at which the trigger bars hit the sear arm. There is no rule that says the top of the trigger bars have to be flat.)

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Interesting Whetrock, thank you!

Cory Joe