AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: D. Taylor Sapergia on November 20, 2015, 02:04:56 AM
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I'm presently building a S. Hawken rifle for a very patient fellow. As with all of my recent work, I have been documenting the work, for the pleasure of the client, and my own reference whenever I want to reminisce. So I thought it might also be interesting for someone thinking of doing a build like this, to see how one builder goes about it.
We're talking about metal work in this case. First, the hammer on this RE Davis percussion lock, though nicely shaped, does not bear much resemblance to any original I have seen. But there is a lot of steel in this hammer, and a few hours with a bunch of files produced a hammer I can live with. In addition to changing the shape of the hammer, I also milled out and 'split' the cup so that the hammer comes down further on the nipple and allows the cap to split upon firing so that it does not jam into the cup. Here's a couple pics:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mCO6Jc/100_5681.jpg) (https://ibb.co/daQaBx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/j89P4H/100_5682.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgcYyc)
Filing away metal from the throat and back of the casting produced a hammer that appears to have a longer neck, more graceful curves, and more closely emulates Hawken's work, IMO.
The plate is also a casting, and on this one, there were a couple of voids along the bottom edge, which were quickly removed while I was dressing the cast edge of the plate's draft. While I was at it, I polished it off too, to 220 grit.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cagXrx/100_5684.jpg) (https://ibb.co/je4Vdc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cuzwJc/100_5683.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hJ3Oyc)
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I'll break this up a bit rather than try to get it all in one post.
Next job is to cut the plate for the breech's snail. In order to do this, I just superimposed the lock with just the tumbler, bridle and hammer attached, over the side of the barrel and breech, and marked the 'fore and aft' locations (roughly) for the snail. Then to the vise, and with a 1/2" dia. rat tailed file, cut away the steel to create the semi-circular recess to allow the plate to fit closely to the breech.
(https://preview.ibb.co/c9Eoyc/100_5685.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kjUcrx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jqcxrx/100_5686.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ewPMJc)
Now, having fit the plate to the breech, and although the hammer lines up 'fore and aft' with the nipple, it does not reach far enough over to align. The lock section of these late Hawken rifles has a taper ...the lateral section at the front of the plate is larger than it is at the tail. Many English rifles of this period feature the same refinement. It serves two purposes: it narrows the wrist of the rifle, and it allows the hammer to move over to the left to better align with the nipple. So I simply filed a taper into the bolster of the plate...about 1/32" or so - skinny at the back and as cast at the front. Now when I lay the lock alongside the barrel, and lower the hammer, it falls perfectly onto the nipple, without having to bend the hammer. Don't you love it when it works out!
(https://preview.ibb.co/mCtdWx/100_5687.jpg) (https://ibb.co/keH5Bx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jV1Xrx/100_5688.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dwVQBx)
I know what you're thinking. Why did he file off so much of the front of the plate forward of the snail, and at such a crazy angle? It's an illusion from the image, partially. Setting the lock at the correct angle to align this features, brought the forward part of the bolster higher and at an angle to the centre line of the barrel. So I filed off the forward part of the bolster, and while I was at it, I cut the bevel so that when the plate is inlet, and the lock moldings are created, they will flow out of this part of the lock plate, as many of the originals did. You will see in the following photos that there are actually two facets there. I still have to shorten that forward part of the bolster. Most original rifles did not have such a protrusion of the plate forward of the snail. These pictures following will show how everything came together. All this represents about two hours work...file fit....file fit, etc.
(https://preview.ibb.co/c7vxPH/100_5689.jpg) (https://ibb.co/khAmJc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jHTHPH/100_5690.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c5NNrx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eg36Jc/100_5691.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jqhcPH)
Now I'm ready to inlet the lock into the wood.
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Hawkens are a nice looking rifle and I'm sure this one will be very nice when it's finished. I've one in .50 cal. that Salvo made. I never shoot it but I do admire it from time to time.
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Nice work Taylor -- I like what you have done to the hammer - looks much better ;).
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Hi Taylor, very nice do you use the hair test when asembling hehe ;)
Runar
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Great info!! Thanks for posting. I've collected parts for a lefthanded hawken ,I hope to start on NeXT spring. This is a big help.
If Your going to checker the hammer, please show us how.
Best regards
Rolf
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Great information and photos.
Gives me good insight on my new venture.
Thank you for taking the time to share.
Fred
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Runaskav: hair test?
Rolf: I almost always chequer the spur of the hammer, as it ensures a positive grip when cocking it. So I'll photograph my process when that time comes. If there are any other aspects of a build like this that folks would like to have me document, I'd be pleased to do so. I love it when other builders provide a photo essay of their work.
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I mean the nice hairline fit you do Taylor :)
Runar
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Awesome job Taylor.I wish thay would have had this internet stuff 40 years ago.I would love to se how you checker the hammer God bless and keep the pictures coming.
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Runastav: we try to get the same metal to metal fit we strive for in wood to metal fit. The lock plate supports the breech's snail, absorbing energy from the hammer blow. The mainspring in this Davis percussion lock is much too strong...so I'll be reducing it's thickness to lighten the power. And I appreciate the compliment.
I checked out my Jim Gordon reference work on Hawken rifles, and most of Hawken's hammers had no checkering. Several though, have cast in checkering, and one I saw may by actually cut. I use a special chequering file I bought from Brownell's many years ago, and a safe-sided tri-square to clean up the borders. I'll post pictures when I do the job. I like a checkered hammer spur, so your thumb doesn't slip off the spur when your hands are frozen and the trophy of your lifetime is standing twenty yards away.
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This is a great post. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Andy
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This is great Taylor, thank you for posting your techniques. I will be following this thread with interest as my next project is a Hawken style 58 caliber.
dave
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I find the Hawken rifle to be an interesting phenomenon. During the late seventies and into the eighties, the Hawken was the rifle to have, owing perhaps to the Charleton Heston Brian Keith movie "The Mountain Men", and Robert Redford's " Jeremiah Johnston". But for whatever reason, the Hawken was popular. So much so that a friend of mine, a master gunsmith in his own right, hired me to produce a prototype from which to copy and produce a line of Hawken rifles. We made 176 of them over the next three years, and today, they bring double to triple what Don sold them for then. I built so many Hawken rifles, I thought I'd never want to see another one. But that's the beauty of this great rifle...you never give up on it, and it comes back over and over again. You cannot deny classic purity of design. They seem to be enjoying a rejuvenation currently, and I'm happily building one after the other, again. But I have to say, I am building at a different level, and for a different reason than i did during the 70's and 80's, and I owe that entirely to this site. Because of the level of workmanship and attention to detail of those who regularly post here, I have automatically kicked my own work up a notch or two. What a wonderful fuel, this site is! Imagine where we'd be if this site and this whole concept had been around in the 70's. A glass of scotch making supper, and a glass of red wine with it, invokes some rambling philosophy..thanks for bearing with me.
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Ramble on sir, a wee glass of bourbon here. The Hawken has that "it" factor in spades.
"You cannot deny classic purity of design"
Very true in every aspect of craft and art. The truly inspired creations endure and the Hawken rifle is a perfect example of that truth, the Pennsylvania longrifle in it's Golden Age another, the knife from flint to steel. Form follows function and the Hawken was the perfect embodiment and tool in its time.
What a rifle, what a form!
dave
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very inspirational words Taylor and of course your work is too.You set the bar high as it should be.
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...What a wonderful fuel, this site is! ...
Amen to that!
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Taylor Do you use parallel lock panels or tapered to the rear?
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I have built them both ways, but it a great boon to reduce the thickness at the aft' end of the bolster by about 1/32", especially with 1 1/8" and larger barrels. As I described above, it moves the hammer over to align with the nipple without having to bend the hammer, and it give the wrist the correct thickness laterally.
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Taylor. This will be a fantastic thread to follow. I will eagerly await every series of pictures and your words of wisdom that come with them. I will in particular be interested in how you inlet the barrel with hooked breech and tang arrangement. Which is first? Barrel or tang? Hope to see it here.
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I would have to agree with you on the subtle lines of Hawken rifles Taylor .There is infinite variety across the years of production.
I still love Hawken style rifles the best ,especially later S.Hawken half stocks with the older straight griprail combination .When I started shooting ,Hawkens were the thing .Every one had one good bad and indifferent .I missed the Davey Crockett phase but did hit the Jeremiah Johnson craze as a teenager.
Pondering yesterday on what to take to the muzzleloading deer opener that is what I reached for naturally , not my longrifles ,not my rifle musket .
PS For checkering the hammer spur I find a jewelers saw is the easiest to control.
BTW thanks for the hammer reshaping tutorial
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Gumboman: it looks like I may have created a monster here. There are plenty of DVD's and video's on this subject, and this subject is almost beyond the scope of this venue. But I will discuss my process and add a few pictures to clarify. I don't think I'll be doing a complete tutorial on 'Building a Hawken Rifle"!!
Your first step is to acquire or create a plan - a drawing on good paper to which you can refer throughout the build. I use poster board or "Bristol board" I buy at the drug store.
Next, make a pattern that you can lay on the wood and trace to get your profile. I like making them out of 1/8" lexan, so I can see the grain through the pattern, for wrist orientation, or to avoid faults in the board. But a door skin or stiff paper can be used too.
I cut out the profile right next to the line, but someone just starting out may only want to do the forestock from the breech to the muzzle end, so that if you must go deeper, you are not committed to a stock already cut to the line. Once the barrel is in, return to your pattern and finish drawing in the bottom lines and butt stock.
Plane the top of the barrel plane flat and square. Measure the barrel's dimension at the breech, minus the plug, and where the barrel exits the wood at the entry pipe, in this case, since it's a half stock and the barrel has a straight taper. This works too with a parallel barrel. Write down these measurements right on the wood. While you're at it, make a felt pen mark every three inches along the barrel from the breech forward, measure these dimensions and write them down on the wood. More later.
I inlet the barrel with chisels, so I only inlet half of it (the bottom half - HA) So I cut away the wood down to the middle line of the barrel, leaving maybe .20" for removal once the barrel is in. What's important here, is to make sure you leave some wood at the breech end - perhaps .020" or even .062", so you'll have some clean up wood later, after the barrel and tang are in.
Draw a centre line completely around the stock. Lay out the barrel inlet area on either side of the centre line. Clamp a straight edge down to the top of the forestock right on the dots on the right side of the centre line, and with a sharp stiff blade, cut along the straight edge, gently at first, ensuring the blade is perpendicular to the wood, and then deeper. Go in as deep as you dare - I go in about 3/32" - 1/8". Now move the straight edge over to the left hand side of the centre line, and repeat. These two cuts are the extreme layout lines of your barrel, so make sure you are not wider than your barrel.
With a flat chisel; I use a 1/2" - cut toward the cut from the inside of the channel removing a long sliver of wood. Again, until you get a feel for it, make your chip small at first. A picture or two here might be useful. These are not in order but you can get the idea.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dAqZMx/100_3690.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mcNQTc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/csveoc/100_3697.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c7LZMx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mPRVuH/100_3696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kj8zoc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bu7W1x/100_3692.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nMrDEH)
You can deepen those cuts to almost the full depth of the side flats of the barrel - or half of the flat I should say, but don't go deeper than that. Now, watching the orientation of the grain, use a big gouge and a mallet to remove the bulk of the wood inside the channel. Here's where those measurements you wrote on the wood come in handy. Use the wire end of your Vernier's Calipers to measure down into the channel, stopping the cutting with a little wood yet to remove. How much is a little? Depends on your experience and bravery! I go down until I have around .025" left to take out.
And here's another thing I do to help make those measurements exact. I divide the barrel's diameter (across the flats) by two and add the thickness of my 6" steel ruler, and right that dimension down on the wood, opposite each 3" mark along the forestock. Now I place the steel ruler across the channel, and use the end of the Vernier's to extend the 'wire' down into the channel, to check the depth. This puts you directly over the centre of the channel. Notice above I told you to measure the barrel every three inches and write that down on the wood. This step I just described that's it's place. I hope I haven't confused you too much!
(https://preview.ibb.co/nxL9Mx/100_3698.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1TJEH)
Now use a flat chisel about 3/8" wide or a little narrower, to cut the bottom flat, right down to your finished dimension. Then cut away the angled flats with the same chisel. I use a left and right hand skew chisel to cut the sharp breech end angle flats of the channel. By now, you will have tried the barrel in the channel. A transfer pigment helps spot where it is too tight or does not want to go down. I ran out of Jarrow's inletting black, so on the last tow rifles I used a tube of lipstick I scored from my wife. I use an old toothbrush to apply a very thin coating of the grease, lay the barrel squarely into the channel, and give it a tap with a mallet. Cut away the colour, repeating the process until the barrel bottoms. I made a scraper out of a worn out file by bending the last 1 1/2" over at a little more than 90 degrees under red heat. I ground the end to an octagonal shape and sharpened it. It peels wood out quickly, and can get away from you, so go slowly.
It takes me about four hours, I guess, to inlet a 1 1/8" tapered barrel into a half stock of hard maple, and it's the last .010" - .015" that takes the time. There are likely better and easier ways to do this work, but being self taught, I stick with what has worked for me 'til now. One better, and faster method, is to send the wood and barrel to folks like Mark Wheland, David Rase, David Keck, to name a few, and they'll do an unbelievably better job that you or I can. If you count your time as worth anything, and have already done fifty this way, you'll appreciate their services...I do.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dj6kTc/100_3701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fnYAuH)
Now the tang...
As you detective types have probably noticed, this is not the current build, but one I did a couple years ago. I didn't document the most recent one as detailed as this old guy, but the process is the same.
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The tang:
As received, the casting require some work. First, the standing breech tang must be fit to the plug. Take some time to do this as best you can. It not only indicates particular workmanship, it is very important to the accuracy potential of the rifle. There must be as little movement in this joint as possible. Once the two are mated, soft solder them together. Now you can work on them as a unit. The snail is machined to receive the nipple, but that's it! There is precious little room to get a nipple wrench into the snail to work on the nipple...just way too much steel there. So I fit a grinding stone into my Dremel and slowly take out the extra metal until I'm happy. I polish it with abrasive rubber grinders...makes a nice job that allows fouling to be cleaned away easily. Some pics...
(https://preview.ibb.co/jqs3EH/100_5654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dvwkTc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/k7BwZH/100_5655.jpg) (https://ibb.co/expiEH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fym8gx/100_5656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hX5OEH)
Now that you have the breech plug fitted to the barrel and the tang soldered to the plug, you can have a look to see how far out from straight the tang lays. Tunr the barrel upsidedown, and look along the bottom flat from the muzzle end of the barrel, and see where the end of the tang ends up. It won't be straight, in my experience. So, it needs to be bent left or right to align with the bottom flat. The three pin method Key Guy uses works for me.
And the tang also must be bent to follow your stock's profile, and it definitely will not as cast. I use red heat with an oxy/acetylene torch to do this job. When you're happy, check again for left and right...the end of the tang has to be on your centreline. You are also going to notice that that tang is not particularly symmetrical. You can leave it along, or file it to a more pleasing symmetry.
Once all this bending and straightening have been accomplished, file all the cast finish off and leave a nice smooth filed finish. Be sure you've added draft to the edges, so that inletting will go predictably.
In the above shot, the barrel has been laid into the channel, and the tang is just sitting on top of the stock. Mark around the edges of the tang with a sharp pencil, down to where the taper of the tang starts going wider rather than narrower. It's just a matter of cutting away wood now employing super sharp chisels, inletting transfer grease, and patience, until the breech drops down, bit by bit, into the wood. You'll come to a point when the waist of the tang is now holding the piece from going any further down, so bit by bit, outline it and chisel the wood away. When the transfer grease on the bottom of the breech plug hits the bottom of the barrel channel and you have inlet everything just below the surface of the wood, you are there. Crack a beer!
(https://preview.ibb.co/mRJAuH/100_3709.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gY5ZMx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dDFquH/100_3725.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ej7g1x)
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Anybody can do that! ::)
Nice work!
Fred
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Many thanks for the written details and the great pictures. And good job on the writing as I can comprehend it all. Mostly though, thanks for investing the time to post this great information so all lovers of the long rifle can benefit from your knowledge.
My next build is not a Hawken but it will have a hooked breech so this information will be very helpful. But I can see a Hawken will have to be added to my already long list of gun projects I want to build.
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Haven't been on here much, and what do I find just in time for my 'building season'?
Taylor, thanks for such a detailed "Non-Tutorial" ;) I'll have to break out the files on my hammer, since 'Ohhh, now I get it!'.
All great stuff!
I'll try to not ask too many questions and just sit here quietly and watch.
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Very interesting how you did the snail Taylor, good information and thank you. Yes, creating a thread like this probably seems too much and some trouble but there is nothing like it in the ALR archive or on the web about Hawken builds. It is very valuable and will be a great addition to the tutorials section.
Thank you again.
dave
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Nice work Taylor.
Your work is always impressive.
Dan
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Nice as usual. BUT - this building thing interferes with the shooting thing.
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I have enjoyed the pictures and seeing the process you go through...thanks its been educational to say the least!
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Thanks for all the great feedback fellas!
Like a lot of you, I like to prepare the metal parts ready for finish, before I inlet them. Then there are no surprises. But it means a considerable amount of metal work all at once. Such is the case of the trigger guard and trigger assembly. The first image is the "as received" picture. The triggers themselves could be used as received, but I like to dress the steel for a more pleasing finish and function first. And the guard has casting gates and flaws that need filing to make them serviceable.
So the process is to first cut away the casting gates, and then file the guard down to a uniform plane and thickness, paying attention to the very edges - you don't want a knife edge or a wavy edge. I use a fairly aggressive rasp and then a finer file to do this rough work. Following that, 80 grit, then 120 grit, then 180 grit abrasive cloth. At that point I am happy with the shape, and can fit the guard to the trigger plate. So here's a few pics of that sequence...
(https://preview.ibb.co/iHVFeH/100_5721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d19mmx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kvVsRx/100_5722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bvNTzH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fkc6mx/100_5723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cYSiYc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jEqsRx/100_5724.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cea3Yc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/k4z8zH/100_5740.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ffvgKH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ffcdzH/100_5746.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gLv96x)
(https://preview.ibb.co/daOwmx/100_5741.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k3vntc)
how to cancel a hulu account (https://deleteacc.com/hulu)
The guard has a stud on the front of the bow that threads into a corresponding threaded hole in the trigger plate. This is a shameless copy by the Hawken boys of the English method of attaching a guard to a trigger plate, as is the guard itself. In this case, the stud is cast with a 1/4" x 28 thread - in other examples, the stud has no threads and must be cut yourself. But before you cut those threads, the stud needs truing and where it joins the guard is usually a flare and at a screwy angle to the guard. To remedy that, I made a cutter from a piece of 3/8" drill rod. I drilled a 1/4" hole into the end, about 1/2" deep, made a series of cuts with a hack saw across the diameter, and then files some rake into those little segments, to make a cutting tool. I hardened and tempered the end and it cuts a wonderfully smooth shank with a perfect base, that will mate nicely with the trigger plate. Here's some images of that...
(https://preview.ibb.co/cpxstc/100_5742.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hD1JYc)
The cutter makes a base that is square with the stud, and leaves metal around it that needs to be dressed down to the bottom of your cut. But you end up with a flat square plane that fits solidly against the plate. To true the stud, and not get it crooked, I simply set the stud into the jaws of my drill press (gently) then brought the whole guard down with the quill into my drill press vise, and clamped it solidly. Now I could loosen the jaws and release the guard, and replace it with the cutter which is now perfectly aligned with the stud. The drill press vise MUST be solidly clamped to the drill press table, or you are inviting disaster. Picture the vise, when things go sideways, and the vise is trying to rotate at 500 rpm!!! Locked down, you avoid that adventure.
Now you can put the guard into your bench vise, and run a 1/4" X 28 tpi die down the stud to clean up and bottom the threads. Incidentally, you can make cutters like this to do several jobs: cutting the pivot tit on a fly (detent), making small lock screws with only a drill press and without a lathe, etc.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gRHgmx/100B5730.jpg) (https://ibb.co/daonRx)
You can see in this image, despite the fact that I'm not holding the camera square with the world, that the base of the stud at the guard is not square with the stud at all. If you drill and thread the plate to receive the guard without correcting this, there will always be a hideous gap at the junction.
The triggers themselves, as they arrive at your door, are usable as is, but they are received as cast. They have been heat treated for wear, but can be filed and polished and reshaped where needed with red heat. The trouble with this is that you necessarily have to remove metal from the trigger, which make for a less than perfect fit in the plate. But with a gentle hand the fit isn't too bad, and the make-over is worth the effort. Filing and polishing removes the mold lines and discrepancies that cannot be tolerated. ..Just makes you more satisfied with the rifle.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dxWGmx/100_5748.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bQwhRx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nKFyzH/100_5752.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b0EDYc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dcSYYc/100_5747.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iup2Rx)
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The cutter makes a base that is square with the stud,
Thanks for the reminder. I'll have to make one of those because I always forget about them when doing English rifles and fiddle around filing the stud round. That's not a problem, but getting the base flat so the guard can be clocked correctly is. Your cutter solves that problem.
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Dave, it makes life so much easier.
You may be able to see in this shot, that I have changed the angle of the tip of the trigger where it mates with the front trigger. As received, this angle does not match the front trigger, and is rough - needs shaping and polishing. Polish the hook to 600 grit.
(https://preview.ibb.co/fEALDc/100_5750.jpg) (https://ibb.co/epJkeH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/e72YYc/100_5749.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cZS0Dc)
Now, where to drill for the stud? SET the triggers, and lay the guard on top of the plate in the position they will be when assembled. With the triggers set, you can align the back end of the guard's bow with the curve of the rear trigger, allowing as much room as possible in the front of the bow for the front trigger and your finger. I use a FINE tipped marking pen to make a mark on each side of the stud against the side of the plate. Then I divide that by two, mark the centre, and transfer that to the plate. Centre punch the centre of your mark - deep!!
Now drill a 1/8" hole through the plate and square with the tangent of the curve of the plate. This is easy to do by just resting the plate on a level piece of wood on the drill press table, bring the drill down to your centre punch mark, and drill through. I don't use a vise for this job, but I should. If the trigger plate rocks and the drill grabs, it'll pull the long trigger plate out of your hand and rotate at 500 rpm. You WILL get hurt! So hold the trigger plate in your drill press vise. Once the 1/8" pilot drill has done its job, replace it with a # 3 drill bit, and repeat. I also cut a shallow counter sink at this time, as the threads on the stud will contact the plate before the guard bottoms for sure...just a shallow one! I start the tap using the drill press so that it is perfectly square with the plate, and finish it in my bench vise, as this image shows.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mWRVeH/100_5753.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fM4GKH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bHKGKH/100_5754.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jkr7Rx)
When you turn the guard onto the plate, you may find that the guard has some bends that interfere with the guard turning all the way around. No two of these guards are ever the same as the last...they are castings that are almost always warped and bent out of true. Usually, the front end of the bow needs to be bent out, increasing the radius of that curve. I do this bending cold with a 1 1/4" piece of pipe and my bench vise. I protect the guard with a brass plate, insert the pipe, and turn the handle, gently moving the bow open a little. Trial and fit (not error) will tell you when it is enough.
(https://preview.ibb.co/n33JzH/100_5755.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mXBStc)
When you turn the guard onto the plate you are likely going to find that it will bottom, but it won't align with the plate...it needs to go a little more. Don't force it! Take it apart, and remove a little from the trigger plate, again trial and fit, until it comes all the way around and aligns lengthwise. Now it's time to drill and tap for the machine scrtew that holds the back end of the guard to the plate. I use a #6 x 40 tpi screw for this job. Mark the position of the screw hole so that the screw will pass down into the scroll curl of the guard nicely, centre punch, drill the hole with the tap drill through the PLATE. Set the guard/plate assembly into your drill press vise with the top of the plate square with the drill. Make sure the plate is centred over the guard, and drill through both into the guard, and through. Replace the tap drill with the clearance drill bit, rotate the guard out of the way, and drill the clearance hole for the machine screw. Now swing it all back together again, replace the clearance drill bit with the 6 x 40 (or whatever) tap and start the tap using the drill press. Finish tapping in your bench vise...'least that's how I do it.
(https://preview.ibb.co/eQ0Rmx/100_5756.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mExTzH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nB3OYc/100_5758.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b0mctc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/e7LFeH/100_5759.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mKRADc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fVzaeH/100_5761.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mYdqDc)
There, now I can take it all apart again, and inlet the trigger plate into the wood.
I just noticed something interesting...my camera thinks it's Jan. 1 2005!!! Wudzupwitdat? I did the work yesterday.
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Thanks for that tip Taylor. I have done several of those kinds of trigger guard's in the past and fitting every thing square by eye was always a challenge for me. Thanks for sharing and please keep it up.
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The bonehead award is given when the guard is installed without checking the position of the rear trigger.
Been there,done that MANY years ago.
Bob Roller
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Thanks for the totorial on installing the guard to the trigger plate.Very informative about the guards without threads on the stud already,will be needing that info.Again thanks for the pics you sent me.
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Really nice work, Taylor, as usual!
Ed
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This thread will definitely be my go-to whenever i decide to tackle a Hawken-style rifle.
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I have a Hawken build I am working on now. It is pretty intimidating and this thread does help a lot.
Coryjoe
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I'm delighted that some of you are finding this useful.
Today I'll inlet that trigger set.
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Another Thank You.
When I did my first one years ago I was on my own.
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That is how I started too CS. But experience is perhaps the best teacher. When Hawken rifles were so popular in the seventies and eighties, I was hired by a local gunsmith, having made several of these rifles on my own, to create a prototype rifle. From that one, we created a pattern stock, ordered barrels and parts, and began to produce what we called the Fraser River Hawken. The price was about double what you had to pay for a T/C "Hawken", and after several years, he decided to throw in the towel. But we made nearly two hundred of them and they have remained a desirable rifle to this day. That job gave me a lot of experience and practice at performing all of these small tasks that taken together, make up into a nice rifle.
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This next bit is pretty routine. Again, there are lots of videos by far better craftsmen than I, describing the inletting process. And there is nothing here that is particularly Hawken specific. But there are some things that are essential, and I'll talk about those.
As with any inlay, layout is first and is crucial. On the side of the stock, and here I use the lock side, lay out the bottom line of the barrel channel, the web you are shooting for, the ramrod hole, and the wood remaining at the bottom of it all. Here I see that I must inlet the trigger guard about 1/8" below the wood's surface to bring it to the level I want. On the underside of the stock you have a centre line that goes all the way around the stock end to end. I have marked the position of the sear bar by drilling a hole up into the lock inlet so I can actuate the sear when I'm inletting the lock. The trigger must be placed so that both the front and rear triggers will contact the sear bar. Coincidentally, that spot on the trigger plate, is where the adjustment screw is. So lay the trigger plate, minus all the parts, on the centre line, aligning the adjustment screw hole with your mark indicating the sear bar, and with a sharp pencil, draw around the trigger plate until you arrive at the part on the forward end where the plate does not contact the wood....about 2 1/2" from the forward end.
I use a 3/8" wide chisel and stab using a medium sized rawhide mallet just inside the pencil line. This L & R trigger plate has draft cast and ground into it which ensures that as you sink it into the wood, it will become tighter and tighter, requiring you to take wood away to let it go down. This is good. Without it, it is unlikely that I could inlet the plate without gaps. I drive the chisel into the wood all along my drawn lines, about 3/32". I used curved sweeps and gouges to cut the line around the tail end finial, again, just inside the drawn lines. Then with the 3/8" chisel, I cut toward that incised line and remove a strip of maple the length of the drawn line. Now it's simply a matter of taking away the wood inside the lines, setting the plate in the inlet with some transfer pigment, and little by little, down she goes. I start at the tail end with these long plates - others start at the other end. But either way, know that you are inletting over a concave curve, and as you go down, unless you are aware of this, you will get a gap at the end you inlet last. Both ends of this trigger plate have exaggerated 'draft', likely to assist with this phenomenon.
So here's a few images ...
(https://preview.ibb.co/fztSbx/100_5767.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iwNaUH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dcqJic/100_5769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i1vjOc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gLuYGx/100_5770.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fnK0wx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mZ2nbx/100_5771.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k99B3c)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cizppH/100_5768.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hzLJic)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bMEiGx/100_5772.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ccfepH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jiMVwx/100_5773.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eq9uOc)
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Once the plate is in where it needs to be, it's time to inlet for the trigger parts themselves. A combination of drill bits and chisels makes short work of that.
Now the triggers are in, but they interfere with the lock's sear. Depending u[on whose lock you have used, more or less of the tops of the triggers will have to be dressed off, either by filing or grinding. I grind mine on a 6 x 48" belt grinder. I duk the unit in water frequently to avoid changing the hardness/temper. Eventually, everything works fine. Take your time with this...it's easier to take it off than put it on.
Now, the butt plate....but first, more pictures.
(https://preview.ibb.co/htJoic/100_5774.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bUDM3c)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fXC3Gx/100_5778.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e7KTic)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gBrVwx/100_5780.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fdGxbx)
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You make it look so easy,nice clean lines,nice indeed
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Joe, you've touched on something, perhaps without realizing it. Remember I had to set the trigger assembly 1/8" or so below the wood's surface. Once that was accomplished, and before I took the picture, I dressed off the stock down to the steel. When you do this, you take away a collection of spots where a chisel edge has damaged the edge of your inlet, or you took out a few thou too much wood. the beauty of the draft angle is that as you set the part deeper into the wood, the top closes up and the booboo's become less apparent.
So, inlet just below the surface, and dress the wood off to the metal, for a nice clean edge.
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Started to notiçe stuff like that around tight or small areas where I tried to make a cut and the chisel would ding the side of the inlet.The tear drops on the lock bolt side of the rifle for example.plenty of wood to sink them down like you said.Very interested to see how you handle the butt plate,as with others this seems to be a problem area of the build where so much is going on.
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I inlet the second trigger set into the second stock this afternoon. What a nice thing to be able to do on Christmas eve!! I'm working on two Hawken rifles at the same time, completing one step on both before I proceed to the next. So this one is the full stocked .50 cal with the 1" parallel barrel x 36" long. This stock is red maple, and reminds me more of working with hard walnut than maple..but I like it. Chisels have to be super sharp or it's super hard work...the sharper, the better.
It occurred to me as I was fitting the triggers to the lock, that in a number of threads, guys have asked questions about how to go about getting the triggers to work best, and not interfere with the sear arm. In both these rifles currently on the bench, the triggers are from L & R, and they include both style of Hawken triggers that L & R sells, not that it makes any difference in the working of the pieces. As received the triggers are 'as cast' apart from being drilled and fitted to the plates. I filed them smooth and polished them to 180 grit before inletting. I also cleaned up the trigger contacts and improved the angles of engagement. A new file just cuts them. I also changed the curve of both of the front triggers, though I am not sure I like this one I was working on today.
Anyhoo, after inletting, the triggers protrude way up inside the lock inlet and interfere with the sear arm. They have to be filed or ground down and in my case, I used my 6 x 48" belt grinder to make quick work of the extra steel. You have to go slowly and try them often in the inlet to make sure you aren't taking away more steel than you have to...that would create ano0ther problem in which you would have to add steel to the trigger. Here's a couple of pics to help describe what I'm attempting to say.
Here's the triggers as received, and you can see inside the sear hole that they won't let the lock sit in the inlet.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dB1r3c/100_5798.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ja5Jic)
Here they are laying on the butt stock, and I have not cut them down yet...next picture shows them ground so they will not interfere with the working of the lock but rather trip the sear set or unset very nicely.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jNfC9H/100_5799.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cu8M3c)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dOZ5UH/100_5801.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mEFqwx)
While I'm at this stage, I will also say that how the triggers interact with the sear is also very dependent upon how hard you turn down the triggers mainspring screw. It only requires enough power to consistently trip the sear, so go easy there. The minimal tension on this screw also allows the rear trigger to 'float' so that it isn't continuously hard against the sear bar...very important.
So here's a shot of the lock and triggers happy together.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jwhvwx/100_5803.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eACH9H)
Here are both rifles at the same stage, more or less.
(https://preview.ibb.co/ctioic/100_5807.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHnEOc)
And finally, both rifles on the table. I got the butt plates reversed in this shot. They'll go on next, to avoid damage to those delicate toes.
(https://preview.ibb.co/k9snbx/100_5805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/npAJic)
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Thats a nice looking flintlock Taylor, who made the lock?
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It's an L & R 900 (Ashmore) flintlock with the double throated cock. I did some filing on the plate, and a little engraving. This lock started life on a Don Stith fullstocked rifle that burnt to death in a trailer fire. Strangely enough, the springs were not affected, but the frizzen needs rehardening and tempering. The lock now has an interesting 'patina' that I rather like, and I may just leave it as is.
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OK I see it now, the filing and engraving made some major cosmetic changes. Thanks for that explanation. Keep up the good work. It's fun to watch as it is when Runar builds and when Okiboy documented his rifle a few years back.
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The double throated cock-lock looks perfect, just as it is to me, too. It is very nice indeed.
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Just to be specific about the lock, as it comes 'out of the box' first the surfaces need to be drawfiled, stoned, and polished. The edges do not have sufficient bevel, so I filed a greater and heavier bevel around the periphery. The tail has a flattened section that I increased, deepened and added a concave molding with a border. The bridle of the frizzen was filed to give a more pleasing shape and the finial where the frizzen screw terminates was rounded. Apart from filing and polishing, the cock is fine as is. I engraved in block letters, "Ashmore Warranted", and did a little decorative engraving. The plate, cock and tumbler bridle were then pack hardened. Adding to the bevel on the plate diminishes the thickness that needs to be inlet, and adds to the appearance of the lock and the molding surrounding it. On these particular locks, I also reharden and draw the temper of the frizzen springs to a dull grey past blue...they tend to be brittle.
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That's a real nice touch to give some extra detail to the flint lock.I too like the patina,darn shame what it took to get there though.I'm right about where you are with my hawken and you now have my thinking about the look of the lock plate.I did want to have that ashmore warranted like the picture in Baird's book but did not see the extra details around the lock like the bevels ect.Thanks for pointing these details out,love your work and attention to detail.
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I got an email from one of our subscribers asking about the filing of the L&R plate, so I thought I might as well post it here as well. Hope he doesn't mind me sharing the msg. I mailed him.
In the image, you see a new L&R plate along with the one I'm using on this build. Treat all locks, and triggers as received, as a kit that you can improve upon. They are a blank canvas.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jH6DGx/100_5810.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i0xaUH)
Joe: the first thing to do, even before inletting, is to file the edges of the plate to remove the as cast surface, and true up the 'draft' edge. this makes inletting the lock so much easier.
Then, with your Vernier's calipers, scratch a line on the plate parallel to the edge, all the way around the plate. Now, holding the plate in your vise in protective brass, leather or wood pads, file the bevel into the plate. You'll be cutting down and into the edge, reducing the surface of the edge that will be inlet. All of the beveled portion will remain above the surface of the stock. That is to say, once the lock is inlet so that the bolster sets firmly and evenly along the side flat of the barrel, you must take away stock wood until all of the bevel is proud.
Now you can cut the concave molding, and decorative border, and reduce the height of the flat tail down to the bevel.
Baird's books have no flint plates illustrated...that's why you can't remember seeing one there. Percussion plates, almost always, are flat with the wood.
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Thanks Taylor,nah don't mind you sharing this with the folks.Without your knowledge and expertise building one of these rifles would be a heck of a lot more difficult.I appreciate you sharing it with us.
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(https://preview.ibb.co/f9pTic/100_5811.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ebEuOc)
Butt plates are on both stocks. This first one is what TOW calls their "Bridger" butt plate. But I filed out the little curved webb where the crescent joins the heel, as there are more originals like that than with the curve's. The ones with the little curves are usually associated with the two piece brazed butt rather than the cast ones, I think.
(https://preview.ibb.co/evgNbx/100_5814.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k54awx)
This second one is for a full stocked rifle, so it's an earlier style plate. This one may have originated in Don Stith's shop, now sold by TOW as well. It is much lighter and thinner. But this particular specimen was too hard to drill for the screw holes, but it annealed with red heat and air cooled. I like both plates, for different reasons.
There's nothing special about these inlets. I bandsawed as close to the inside curve profile as I could, and then it's rasp, file and chisel, with lots of fitting with transfer grease...lipstick in this case. I used a short bladed knife as a scraper at times as well. It's easy to lose the line along the top of the comb as you whittle away, so keep a straight edge handy to frequently check that comb line, and don't inlet the plate kicked up or down. Make sure you drill the holes at 90 degrees to the surface of the plate - otherwise, the screw heads will not fit nicely into the countersinks. I like the screw slots to align with the bore, but it isn't necessarily historically correct. If you do the same, countersink less than you think is necessary, screw the plate down, and then little by little, increase the depth until you're happy. File off the heads flush - make sure you've deepened the slots if necessary, or you'll cut away the screwdriver slot. A hacksaw is all that I use for that, in the case of these screws. The screws are # 10 x 1 1/4" with a countersink domed head.
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I just re-read my last post, and there is one more thing I want to bring to your attention.
I drill the pilot holes for the screws through the plate with a 1/8" drill bit. then I return the plate to the stock, drop the drill through the holes and lightly tap with a mallet, ensuring that the drill is square. Then prick punch the mark left by the drill bit on the wood on the crescent hole, but not the one on the heel. I prick punch that mark about 3/64" FORWARD of the mark. Then I drill these two marks again with a 1/8" or 9/64" bit, square with the surfaces and to a depth of about 1". A #9 drill bit will give the clearance needed for these screws I use. Select a screw driver that fits the slots in the screw head closely, rub some bees wax onto the threads of the screws, and run them into the wood. Setting the hole in the wood a little forward on the heel will draw the plate tightly against the wood. I have already described cutting the countersinks.
Don't hesitate to ask for clarification if I am too vague in some aspect of this work.
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Taylor
First thank you for taking the time to post all that you posted concerning the construction of two fine Hawken rifles. I only wish one of them was coming to Alabama. I have always had a soft spot for Hawken rifles. Just a bit of trivia on the M900 L&R. If memory serves me the M900 was initially based on a Birmingham lock made by Bishop. It was owned by Lynton McKenzie and loaned to LC and Liston Rice to use as a basis for the M900. They called it a Manton because as LC said" who ever heard of a Bishop". Anyway it supposedly had never been mounted on a gun and was in pristine condition for a lock of that age. I have a picture of the original lock front and back. It came pre engraved as did many of the export locks of this period. Just basically an export lock of the period. But very appropriate to use on an american rifle
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I've done a tutorial on inletting barrel slides before, but I'm at that stage with these two rifles, so I'll keep this ball rolling by repeating myself.
The slides are commercial offerings from TOW. Two of them have slanted heads for the upper forestock, and one does not, for the lower forestock. I file and polish to 120 grit prior to inletting, and they ended up .070" thick and about 3/8" wide. I'll increase the length of the slot in the slides when the time comes to install the capture pins. But now it's time to inlet them.
Measure the barrel's vertical dimension with Vernier's calipers from the top flat to the top of the slot in the underlug...write it on the barrel. Do all three...they may not be the same. I use a fine tipped marker to indicate the exact location and extreme borders of the slot in the underlub, on the flats of the barrel, extending them up the angled flat to the side flat. Then, with the barrel in its channel, I transfer these vertical lines to the wood, using a sharp pencil and a machinist's square. I do this for all three slides on both sides of the stock.
Now, set your Vernier's calipers for the dimension you wrote on the barrel. Set your square on the top flat above the slot location with the leg alongside the stock. Using the inside legs of the calipers, set one leg against the square and the other on the wood...hold it there while you deftly use a pencil to make a dot on the wood, indicating the barrel's full depth in the channel. Use your finger as a guide and draw that mark all the way across the width of the slot. Now lay the key against the wood, and mark the bottom dimension of the slot. It will look something like this.
(https://preview.ibb.co/bGD2bx/100_5850.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jrTqUH)
Do this on both sides of the stock in all three slot locations. You'll get good at it the more you do it. And I know, a video would have been easier to understand.
Now it's a simple matter to prick punch three marks just inside the extreme outside ends of the slot and the middle. Then centre punch your marks.
(https://preview.ibb.co/e9Eawx/100_5851.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dcd2bx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nEoeOc/100_5852.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jXkR3c)
I use a drill press to make my holes in the stock. I set the rifle in the vise on the press table, gently squeezing the barrel and wood enough to hold it and you can tell it's square looking at the contact between the vise and the barrel. I drilled the holes with a #50 drill (.070"). The drill press was set on high speed, and the the drill bit aligned carefully over the marks, then brought down to contact very gently until I had a clean perfect start. I drilled and withdrew three times on each hole, to clear chips, and ensure that the bit didn't wander off line. I drilled a little over half way through the stock.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cqRoGx/100_5853.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h7nH9H)
(https://preview.ibb.co/m4fFwx/100_5854.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jONjpH)
I drill all the holes on one side of the stock, moving the rifle along each time. When you do the slot closest to the muzzle, you'll either have to set up a support to take the weight of the rifle or hold it in your left hand while you drill with the right. I don't clamp the vise down, though that would be a good idea, but still there is too much weight out to the end of the rifle for the vise to hold without crushing everything. You do not want to squeeze it so tight that you change the barrel's seat in the channel, or do other nasty stuff.
Then I turn the rifle over and drill from the other side. You'll find that the holes will align very well from side to side, if you've done your layout well.
Removing the wood webs between the holes is next. For this task, I made a chisel from a thin worn out file used for sharpening spade drill bits. The chisel ended up being .057" thick. I just insert the tip into the middle hole and gently push in and wiggle back and forth parallel to the length of the slot. In this step, the barrel is out of the stock, so you'll see the tip of the chisel breaking through into the lug inlet in the channel. Then it's into the outside holes breaking the wood toward the centre, being careful not to widen the slot. The sharp chisel will make the slot rectangular, when prior, it had rounded ends from the drill bit. Again, work until you get to the centre of the channel; then go from the other side.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cAGYic/100_5855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hSd2bx)
This shot shows the slot chiseled out and the tool I made for the purpose. The handle is a hardwood plug I used on a .62 cal Hawken years ago, and added some leather work to improve grip.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cMcvwx/100_5856.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ikgNbx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hMmAUH/100_5857.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cxhjpH)
The keys will still not go through the stock, but that's good. That means you have not taken away too much wood. To make the fit perfect, the next step is to burn your way through the wood and the lug at the same time. Put the barrel back into the channel, and clamp it gently fore and aft. Grip one of your keys with a pair of vise grips by its head, heat the tip not quite red, carefully insert the hot key into the slot and push it squarely into the slot. It won't go all the way in one pass, most likely. Just repeat until it goes through. I insert all my keys from left to right - the same way my lock nails go through. I've seen Hawken rifles with keys going in etiher side, but most go left to right. If you do them the same as your lock nail, you won't get mixed up.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mBQZOc/100_5859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dybxbx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gBGKpH/100_5858.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bvvqwx)
That's it for barrel slides (keys). When you dress off the stock - in this case I used my bandsaw - the burnt edges of the slots will disappear, leaving only perfectly fitted slides. Remember, it is the slides in contact with the wood that holds the wood to the barrel. If you use escutcheons (and you don't need them with this system) they are only decoration, and to protect the stock from ham-fisted pin or slide removal. The escutcheons are not to support the keys.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hDYM3c/100_5860.jpg) (https://ibb.co/chmxbx)
Thanks for your continued interest.
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I'm still tracking with you here Taylor and loving this tutorial. Beautiful work.
dave
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Me too,I know if you do your figuring right this should work just fine but this is the one thing in the build that's shake my confidence a little.You only get one shot at getting the slots right.
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One of the jobs that is most difficult, for me at least, to get right is to get the tang screws countersunk into the tang so that they are perfect...no gaps at the front or rear. The key is to get that drill square with the top of the tang, Here's how I do it.
In order to determine where to put the front screw on a Hawken tang, you have to think through the process and find out where you want it to come out on the trigger plate. So turn the rifle up-side-down and make a mark in the centre of the plate just forward of the guard's threaded hole. That's the traditional exit point. Prick punch it, and then centre punch it. Now, draw a line across the bottom of the stock at ninety degrees to the length. Add a little witness mark on the side of the wood where this line ends. In the following photo, I've already done the work, and am now backing up to document it...sorry order is backward. Ignore the two parallel lines that go up the side of the wood for now.
how do i delete an account (https://deleteacc.com/b)
With the stock in the vise, barrel and tang and triggers completely inlet, place your machinist's square on the top of the tang, straight across, with the leg down the side of the stock. With your thumb on the top pressing the square firmly against the tang, you'll see the leg in some proximaty (spell check doesn't like my word) to that mark you made at the bottom edge of the stock. Slide the square back and forward along the tang watching how the leg moves to come to your little mark. When you have the leg in contact with that mark and the square straight across the tang, make a pencil mark on both leading and trailing edges of the square, and along both sides of the leg too. Those are the two parallel lines you saw in the first shot. It was difficult for me to hold everything with one hand and take a picture with the other, but I hope you get the idea.
(https://preview.ibb.co/imMzOc/100_5843.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hFU8Gx)
Now do the same with the rear screw. It doesn't matter where that one ends up on the trigger plate, as it will end up behind the mainspring's retaining screw.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jYDUOc/100_5844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c6hdGx)
Draw a line across the bottom of the stock at right angles to the length. Be aware that you have built taper into your lock panels and you cannot use the square along the side of the stock to make this line. I eyeball it.
Now mark the centre of the plate, prick and centre punch and you are ready to drill for the screws.
(https://preview.ibb.co/iF9m3c/100_5846.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dr4KOc)
You have two pairs of lines crossing your tang, one set for each screw. Mark the middle of the tang between each pair, prick and centre punch. Remove the tang from the rifle, set it FLAT ON A BLOCK on the press table and drill these two holes with a 1/8" bit. It's important to drill these two holes at ninety degrees to the surface of the tang.
Remove the triggers from the rifle, and disassemble the triggers.
If you are using #10 x 32 tpi screws, choose a #21 for your tap drill. But pre-drill with a drill bit smaller than that, such as a 1/8" bit. For that rear screw, you can simply turn the trigger plate up-side-down and drill straight through on your mark. But the forward screw is a little trickier. The forward screw passes through the trigger plate at an angle less than ninety degrees, so start that 1/8" bit into the plate with everything square...go in about 1/16". Now clamp the plate in the drill press vise so that the bit will pass through at an angle. What angle? I'd have to take the thing apart and measure it. I just set a 1/2" block under the forward end of the plate, and drill it through. The angle is noticeably less than 90 deg....does that help? Don't drill with the tap drill yet.
Put the tap drill into the chuck, set up you table vise with a centre punch sticking up about 1 1/2", align the tap drill with the centre punch, drop the table about 2 1/2" or so, check the alignment again. and clamp down the vise. The tap drill must strike the centre punch perfectly, so check again. You can set the stop on the quill so that your drill doesn't hit the centre punch, but I don't bother.
Now with the whole rifle assembled but without the lock, ie: barrel, tang, and triggers in - turn the thing up-side-down, place the forward of the two holes in the tang over the centre punch in the vise, align the drill bit with the pre-drilled hole in the trigger plate, and on slow speed, drill half way + through the trigger plate and stock.
Now reverse the stock, place the hole in the trigger plate on the centre punch, align the drill bit with the hole in the tang, and drill on slow speed through the tang, and half way + through the stock. Do the same for the rear screw.
You now have to drill the tang and wood with a clearance drill bit. Measure the diameter of your tap on its shank and select a drill bit that you'll use to make your clearance hole. You can start the clearance drill bit through the tang, sitting the rifle on the centre punch as before, but stop well short of passing through, or you'll have nothing to thread. Ask me how I know of this.
Remove the barrel and tang and the triggers from the stock. Now, set the rifle in your bench vise on it's side, tang facing you, and drill right through with the clearance drill. Return the tang and triggers, and tap the holes through the stock with the 10 x 32 tap. You might want to just start the tap perhaps three threads, then remove the plate and tap it the rest of the way out of the stock. Then you can use cutting fluid where it would have stained the maple in the stock had you finished it that way.
Sorry I don't have pictures to describe this metal working stuff, and a video would have been even better. Most of this stuff applies too to making other muzzle loading guns including pistols. But the subject of drilling the tang straight was the point.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hgfFwx/100_5845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f85hbx)
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I'll crack a beer to. Well done Taylor an a great tutorial. We learn so much from what you do an show us. Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
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Thanks for the reply, and you're welcome. I just cracked one too.
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I just finished drilling the stock and lock plate for the lock plate screw. I this case it is a #8 x 32 tpi with a 3/8" cheese head. I re-cut the threads and ran them down the shank to the appropriate length, drilled the lock plate at the appropriate angle to take into account the taper of the plate to the axis of the bore. I returned the plate to the stock, and using the tap drill and a drill press vice, drilled through the wood to the off side. Then I removed the lock plate and ran a clearance drill bit through the stock. I tapped the plate right through the wood and out through the lock plate.
Now it's time to inlet the screw escutcheon into the off side of the stock. I use a commercial rendering that is a stamping with a machined recess for the screw head, and a # 8 hole . Using a square against the barrel, I drew a vertical line through the hole, as the tear drop of the escutcheon is oriented that way.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dKOzpH/100_5865.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fsyX9H)
Here's a picture of the escutcheon with the draft filed into the edge. this taper should be filed into any and every inlay, so that as you inlet it, it becomes tighter and tighter as it goes down, eliminating damage to the surface, and little gap mistakes.
(https://preview.ibb.co/bQozpH/100_5866.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cRXg3c)
I return the rifle to the drill press vise now, install the clearance drill bit in the chuck, and align the rifle with the drill bit. Now I lock everything up solid with clamps. I replace the clearance drill bit with a specially ground 7/16" bit to cut the circular part of the inlet. The drill has been ground flat with some rake in the cutting edges, like a milling bit, and a little tit in the centre for keeping the bit running straight...that likely doesn't do anything in this application. With the drill press running on its slowest speed, I gently plunge the bit into the stock to the depth of the escutcheon's thickness, minus a few thou. I finish the depth with chisels.
Now the rifle goes back to the bench vise and the escutcheon is inlet fully. A file across the surface finishes the job.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cySyic/100_5868.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hNWPOc)
I obviously do this work prior to shaping the stock and the lock panels. But the taper has been finished. The lock screw is now too long and must be cut to finished length. To do that, I run the screw to its finished depth in the gun, measure that which protrudes, and grind that off in my special plate made for this and other purposes. After you've filed or ground off the extra unnecessary length, removing the screw from the plate cleans up the threads, so that no other finishing is necessary, though I dome the tip and polish it when the time comes.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jSTh9H/100_5869.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nu40wx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dURDGx/100_5870.jpg) (https://ibb.co/di8Sbx)
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Some interest was expressed back on page one of this thread, in the chequering of the spur of the percussion hammer. So here goes:
Below is the hammer polished ready for browning/bluing. With rust browning or bluing, one doesn't need or want a mirror polish; at least I don't.
(https://preview.ibb.co/kH4iJc/100_5874.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvizrx)
...and here's the file that does the work. It's a Grobet Swiss file from Brownell's - a #1, and it has 44 lines to the inch. I've been using this file since 1978 and it still cuts like a dream.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jODhBx/100_5875.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nqp0yc)
I just lay the file at an approximate angle on the spur and gently cut some teeth. The surface is convex so you have to roll the file to cut on the curved surface. I try to stop the cut so I end up with a point at the bottom, and lines going from /corner to corner.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hNsQWx/100_5876.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c5Wxdc)
Now repeat it going from the other side of the spur, stopping the cut as you get to the outside line of your first effort. You might get a bit of run-over, but we'll deal with that in a minute.
(https://preview.ibb.co/b6GKrx/100_5878.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nQH3Jc)
I use my safe sided three cornered file (dovetail file) to take away the run-over ends, and to separate the chequered area from the rest of the hammer. This provides a very positive thumb grip on the hammer spur, so that when your thumb is numb with cold, and Mr. Big is standing in front of you, you won't slip and have the rifle go off without the necessary perfect shot placement. Is it traditional? I have images of some Hawken rifles from Jim Gordon's fantastic collection that have chequered hammer spurs, though most do not. So either way is correct. I know what I like.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gQtzrx/100_5881.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fjZTjH)
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Oh, that checkering is neat.
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So many OLD guns of American make have no checkering on the hammer at all. To me,the checkering is a
safety of sorts. A sweaty thumb and a polished hammer spur are unwanted shot waiting to happen. Thanks
to Taylor for showing this simple,effective method..
Bob Roller
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The time has come to attach the rib to the barrel, and then drill the rod hole. I have come to like the rivet system of attaching the rib. It is easy, fast, and very strong. But first, this rib needed some work.
The rib I'm using is a machined hollow rib. But the concave sides of the rib don't go all the way to the upper edge, and that won't do. Several of the ribs on rifles illustrated in Gordon's Vol. III have flat sides rather than concave, so that's what I steered toward. I glued the hollow rib to a piece of 3/8" diameter drill rod with Cyanoacrylate (Ca) so I could hold the rib solidly in my machinist's vise, and filed the sides flat. This first photo shows the end of the rib sticking up for picture taking, and shows the one side filed while the other one is not.
(https://preview.ibb.co/nc1Y1x/100_5895.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eHDfgx)
Once both sides of the rib are filed and polished to 180 grit, I heated the rod and rib with a propane torch until the rib fell off. I scraped the glue from the inside of the rib - it popped off easily with a knife blade. Then I laid it on the barrel and marked the position of the two rod pipes, and the locations of the rivet holes. I centre punched the rivet holes and having already made the rivets, I drilled the rib and countersunk the holes just a little. This shot simply shows the rib polished. There are images of the drilled and countersunk holes in another thread somewhere.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jWtXTc/100_5896.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c3NgMx)
These are the rivets. I made them on the lathe out of a 3 1/2" spike. They are a tight fit in a #29 hole drilled 1/8" deep into the barrel. I also bottomed the hole square simply by grinding the drill bit flat and then grinding a tiny bit of rake on the flutes. It takes a gentle touch to just remove the taper in the holes. Make sure you set the stop on the drill press quill to avoid making your barrel into a flute. This barrel is 1 1/8" tapered to 1" x .62 cal. so I had to pay close attention to how deep I was drilling. Once tapped into the holes in the barrel, the rivets are staked using a punch.
(https://preview.ibb.co/bvoo1x/100_5899.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iV3cuH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hwuT1x/100_5900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gYmagx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cMDz8c/100_5901.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kpkqEH)
Now the rib is placed over the rivets, and they are set down into the countersinks. Then the rivets are dressed off using a 3/8" rat tailed file, and a dowel with abrasive cloth.
Now the rod pipes. A flat is filed on the rib for each pipe, and also on each of the pipes until you almost break through the tubes. Tin the pipes and the rib, lay the pipes in their position with a rod through them to index them perfectly on the rib, and sweat solder them to the rib. I use a solder made for electrical work that has 2% silver. It flows nicely and is strong.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hhpd1x/100_5903.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fdMDZH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hRnWMx/100_5904.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mYhLEH)
This last image shows the job done, and I've already drilled the rod hole. I use TOW's deep hole drills. The first drill is about .015" under 1/2" and goes through these 1/2" ID pipes easily. It is critical that the hole get started exactly where you want it, otherwise, it will not go where you want it. But with careful layout, and a confident approach, all will go just fine. I drilled about 1/2 of the hole's depth with the 1/2" drill and then switched to a 7/16" bit, as the rod is to be tapered, and this gives me a little more wood on the belly of the forearm. I made little inserts to go into the rod pipes to centre this smaller drill bit. And again, everything worked out fine.
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Good job - great pics & directions.
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Love these build alongs...Inspirational!
Taylor any concern for creating tight spots inside the bore while peening the rivets?
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Awesome post!
I can't give up on reading it.
Thank you so much!
Fred
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Many thanks for your replies. Staking these rivets did not create pimples or tight spots in the bore. There is enough room created by the parting tool when I made the waists in them to receive the barrel steel, without jeopardizing the bore. And I only drilled .125" into the barrel flat, leaving lots of steel between the rivet and the bore. The punch I used is a nail set ground down to 3/32" diameter, and a concave cut into it with a Dremel cut off wheel, to closely approach the rivet.
When I rivet, I start at 12 o'clock, then 6 o'clock, then 3 o'clock and then 9 o'clock. At first the staking moves the rivet away from the staked metal, but continuing the process brings it vertical again, sometimes with some assistance. Then its another four stakes at 1;30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:30. This staking system is very strong. I drilled the rod hole using the pipes on the rib as my guide, and it did not loosen in the least. Still to come is to stuff some steel wool into the hollow of the rib at the muzzle and fill with solder.
Here's the punch.
I would not use this riveting system on a thin walled barrel. One has to use some common sense here. Nor would I drill a hole without knowing EXACTLY where the bottom of that hole will be relative to the bore. I drill each hole one at a time, setting up the barrel flat on the drill press table. I chuck up the bit I'm using, bring it down with the quill until it touches the barrel, and then I lay a 1/8" drill bit in the scale alongside the quill and lock the nut against it. The 1/8" drill bit is the depth indicator. Now I can confidently drill that hole, knowing that the quill will stop at .125" deep. Would a picture help?
(https://preview.ibb.co/kMKaEH/100_5909.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nmBBoc)
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Here's how I set up the drill press to limit the depth of the drill.
The first image shows the drill in the chuck and down on the top of the barrel flat. There is a 1/8" drill bit set between the depth stop and the frame of the press, and the nuts are locked. This incidentally, is the muzzle piece I removed from the Rice tapered barrel for this Hawken build.
(https://preview.ibb.co/kW7TZH/100_5911.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iCE8ZH)
Now the spacer drill bit is removed from the stop, and the quill is lowered as if I had drilled into the barrel. The drill is shown against the end of the barrel in this illustration. The quill has been arrested by the locking nuts on the depth scale.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gGQXuH/100_5912.jpg) (https://ibb.co/frYwMx)
And finally, here's a close-up showing how deeply into the barrel this drill would have gone. This barrel stub is 1" at this end and .62 cal. There's lots of steel between the end of this hole and the bore. And as you move away from the muzzle, the barrel wall becomes thicker, leaving even more barrel between the end of the hole and the bore.
(https://preview.ibb.co/knmQgx/100_5914.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cKEYZH)
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Thanks for the lesson Taylor. You made a spooky job not as scary.
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Thanks for the coments Taylor..Looks like there is plenty of meat on that tapered barrel.
Are the rivets just more h/c to this build?
could only imagine the amount of heat it would take to solider the rib and barrel together.
Thanks again..
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I know ribs were being soldered to barrels in Europe contemporary with guns made by the Hawken fellas. But it is my understanding that riveting is the system they used, and it is a dandy. It would be possible to simply file a ring around the rivet into which you punch the barrel steel to secure it, rather than use a lathe. I think I'll make a special cutter that is only half the width of the parting tool I used on this and my last job. I did a trial rivet and tested it for strength. I could not pull it out. It simply broke off when I used pliers to try to remove it.
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Super work and thread Taylor.Really enjoying following thanks for posting this!!!!!
Mitch Yates
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Taylor,
Sam and Jake would be proud of you working in their shop!
Ray
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Sam and Jake would be worried if he was working in another shop. ;)
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Dale,
Amen to your comment!!! Indeed!!!
Ray
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Taylor,
After soldering the pipes on the underlug, do you do anything to neutralize the flux.
Thanks for the help
Greg
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I just use ordinary soldering flux, applying it with a little artist's paint brush. Then I apply heat and tin the rib and the pipes with a piece of steel wool and more flux. When I bring the heat up to join the pipes to the rib, I add more solder in the creases both sides. It requires very little clean up. The resin flux does not seem to attack the steel over the long term.
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It might only be a minor concern, but would there ever be any problems from cleaning with water that moisture will get under and between the rib and barrel and maybe rusting?
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I was worried about that too Smylee. But it apparently didn't concern our forebears, so I let the concern die. I leave the breech end of the rib wide open so it can breathe. And we by no means subject of guns to the rigors that they could expect in the 19th century. A shot of WD 40 along the rib after cleaning, and/or hunting, and it should be fine.
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I have not experienced any barrel rusting on the 2 guns (used to be 3) I have with wooden under ribs. I still use the dunk and pump method of cleaning with water. When I spray with WD40, I actually spray the surface, not merely damping a patch with it and wiping. I'm convinced the WD40 carries the moisture away.
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I've got the butt stocks for these two rifles roughed out. I started with a big drawknife, shaving sharp, and knocked off the corners. Then used rasps to get to this stage. On the half stocked rifle, the second one pictured here, the wood is super hard, and I timed my work. It took a little over two hours to go from bandsawed to fully shaped. That surprised me.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jKj0EH/100_5916.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h0rfEH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fRUp8c/100_5919.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kCySuH)
And now the half stock...
(https://preview.ibb.co/iGn98c/100_5925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hruYZH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kdMrMx/100_5928.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b95J1x)
(https://preview.ibb.co/g9KBMx/100_5929.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mYPd1x)
I also have the nose pieces installed on both. So now it's time to shape up the forestocks.
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Taylor,
Looking good!
David
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very nice indeed.By any chance did you happen to take a couple shots of how you shape your lock panels?You once mentioned that a broom handle with some 80 grit sandpaper will give you the proper taper.
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I'll put something together on that Joe. Thanks David.
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I'm drooling on the keyboard.
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Dang! My drawknife is nowhere near sharp enough!
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Part of what you may to attributing to sharpness may in part be technique. You cannot simply plough through hard maple with the drawknife. The cut must be a shearing cut to be most effective. Check out the angle of the blade to the wood. the more blade that comes into contact with the wood on each stroke, the easier it will pass through the wood, and the cleaner will be the cut. Think of the Japanese katana.
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arigato sensei Sapergia ;D or should I say tono
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It helps if you practice on bears with a katana. ;D
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That photo of the shaped-out stock tells me it is going to be a beautiful rifle. I would appreciate seeing pictures when it is done. If it becomes an orphan, there is a home for it here in North Carolina! :-) God Bless, Marc
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That photo of the shaped-out stock tells me it is going to be a beautiful rifle. I would appreciate seeing pictures when it is done.
It's unavoidable!
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Disgusting.
It will be a shame to shoot that thing.
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This is pretty crude and rude compared to your rifles Jerry. They are definitely made for shooting - target, trail and hunting.
Joe asked for something on panels so here goes...
After the barrel and tang, buttplate, lock and triggers are inlet, and while everything is still square and flat, and just before I begin shaping the buttstock, I draw the lock panel around the lock. For a Hawken, there are many examples to choose from. In this case, my rifle emulates the panels on the Kit Carson rifle (as best I can from pictures). I like this style as it flows seemingly without interruption, forcing the eye to continue to follow the smooth curves. Sexy to say the least! On a Hawken, the panels are wider than they are on Eastern longrifles, Jaegers, and some English stuff, but don't go crazy...they are still refined and delicate.
Once the panel is drawn to your liking cut across the tail end at ninety degrees to the wrist just outside the tail of the panel, with a 1/2" rat tail file/rasp. Don't cut the line you have drawn, and go into the wrist about 1/8". This will give you a stopping line when you are shaping up the buttstock. As you work from the butt plate forward, you will end up shaping up the back end of the lock panel as a natural progression, up to about the breech of the barrel. I had already accomplished this prior to Joe's question, so this brief explanation is about all I can provide in that regard.
The offside to the lock remains flat and untouched until the lock side panel is finished.
So, now draw in the front end of the lock panel. Pay attention to the images of originals in your reference material. And once again, cut down across the stock with that 1/2" file just outside the forward end line of your panel. Again I go in about 1/8", and as the stock is not flat but convex in shape here, I cut down toward the barrel and toward the trigger plate at the same time. How far in you cut will be determined by how much wood you have through the forestock at the forward end of the lock. I tapered this rifle's lock section by about 1/10", so the stock actually flares here and I have lots of wood.
(https://preview.ibb.co/eS8kEH/100_5931.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ccNZ8c)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cDsCuH/100_5932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cMaAgx)
A little bit of an aside here: notice in the last picture that the stock is flat across the trigger plate, and that there is a 1/8" panel of wood separating it from the contoured part of the stock. This narrow panel starts at the butt plate's toe and extends parallel to the trigger plate right to its forward end, where it will diminish into the convex shape of the forestock as we go along.
Now it is a simple matter, with gouges, rasps and files to shape the lock panel up to your drawn border. In the process, you will also shape the forestock right out to the nose piece (already inlet).
(https://preview.ibb.co/bU931x/100_5934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bMR5EH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hUUQEH/100_5935.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c5QyZH)
Now that you have a finished lock panel take a piece of heavy paper, like cereal box or Brisol board that is a little bigger than your panel all the way around. Punch a hole for your lock bolt and lay the paper over your lock panel, the bolt through the stock. Holding it down with your thumb, press the paper against the sharp edge of your panel creating a crease in the paper. You will move your thumbs around to get the whole panel outlined. Now take the paper off the stock and turn it over. You will see that you have an impression of your lock panel in the4 paper. With a pen or pencil, follow the line all the way around the crease. Cut this pattern out, including the line. You will install it on the off side of your stock, and trace around the pattern, and if you have left the line, your outline will be larger than the panel on the other side.
(https://preview.ibb.co/nsdhTc/100_5940.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kK298c)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jWCnuH/100_5942.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cBOtZH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dt3tZH/100_5943.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dXdhTc)
It is a good idea to verify that the panel on the offside is exactly adjacent to the one on the lock side. So draw a line at each end of the lock panel at ninety degrees to the stock, bring it across the bottom and up the other side. You may need to make adjustments if everything didn't align. One thing that can interfere with this alignment, is drilling the lock bolt through the stock at something other than ninety degrees to the axis of the stock. That is another reason that it is important to maintain centre lines all the way around your rifle as you proceed from one step to another. It verifies alignment.
(https://preview.ibb.co/h0NnuH/100B5950.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cj0J1x)
(https://preview.ibb.co/h185gx/100_5960.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kUT5gx)
Now, make your cut across the stock with that fat round file, and have at it to duplicate the lock side panel. That's where I am right now. For the time being, I leave the panels sharp. But one of the last things prior to staining and finishing is to gently round those surfaces, as was apparently done on original Hawken rifles. Again, unless you are creating a patina'd rifle, go easy on the rounding.
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Thanks Taylor,this kind of information is a big help to first time builders.I really appreciate you sharing all of this with us.
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Beautifully accomplished. Loving this thread Taylor.
dave
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Thanks guys.
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Awesome
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Now you got me wanting to try a Hawken.
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My goal here is to encourage folks to strive for nuances that set Hawken rifles apart from others. This requires personal commitment to study - looking past the forest to see the trees. I understand that without experience and practice, the new builder can easily stray and become overwhelmed. As we speak (write) I have a local friend who is beginning his own Hawken build, and although he has enviable skill with hand tools and is a master carpenter in his own rite, he needs and wants guidance to pull this off to his satisfaction. I am so happy that you all are finding this useful. And I can tell you; every build gets me closer to 'the mark' than the previous. We never stop learning. And having made the effort, it only makes you appreciate more the skill of the men working in the Hawken shop.
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And it's folks like yourself and others here willing to go that extra mile by helping the rest of us on that journey.You inspire,blaze the trail and set the bar so we can all be the better for it.Well done sir!
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Taylor, this question is a little off topic, but not completely. Were Hawkens ever made with single triggers?
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Not Taylor but the answer is yes - Don Stith's J & S Fullstock has a single trigger.
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Thanks for answering Chuck. When Don posted his pictures of that great rifle, I jealously saved them for reference. If you're building a full stocked Hawken, that is a fine one to use for inspiration.
Yesterday afternoon, rather than go shooting, I started inletting the entry pipe for the half stocked percussion rifle. This is a long tedious process that requires for me at least, full concentration and patience. The pipe is a casting from TOW, and I like it for a couple of reasons. It has a 7/16" hole, a filed raised ring at both ends, and is almost square in relation to the lug and tail. It is about half again as thick as a sheet metal pipe, so requires more wood to be removed, but the outcome can be nice. I started by filing and then polishing to 120 grit.
I started by shaping up the forestock leaving quite a bit of extra wood for later removal. Laying the pipe alongside the stock, I marked the angle parallel to the bottom of the nose piece, and using a Japanese dozuki cut out that piece of wood. Then it's chisels and knifes to get the pipe down into the wood, keeping a centre line along the bottom of the forestock, and all things square with the world.
(https://preview.ibb.co/fwN14H/100_5961.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mrJKrx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kDVojH/100_5963.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nQfAyc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fqCerx/100_5964.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cWJKrx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/btc14H/100_5966.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cuMiJc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mxYKrx/100_5967.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jQykWx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jJ15Wx/100_5968.jpg) (https://ibb.co/maBiJc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gzxerx/100_5973.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eRM5Wx)
remove account (https://deleteacc.com/r)
Incidentally, you'll notice the barrel key ... it's entering from the lock side. I always do them opposite to that - enter from the off side. It's presently like that simply to hold the wood to the barrel. I'll change it later.
Having inlet the pipe, now I go at the stock again with rasps, files, scrapers, and 80 grit to finish shaping the forestock, right back to and including the lock panels on both sides. It's now time to finish and inlet the key escutcheons...
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Taylor, I feel silly for asking but what is that behind the rib on the bottom flat? I must have missed that lesson.
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That's called a "nose piece/cap" It is a casting from MBS. Does there need to be a chapter on it....I have pics from a very similar build?
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Yikes- I was looking at the photo from straight below or looking down on it and it looked like a short section of rib with one rivot. Told ya I'd feel silly. ;D
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Chuck, thanks for the answer to my question. ;D
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That's called a "nose piece/cap" It is a casting from MBS. Does there need to be a chapter on it....I have pics from a very similar build?
I've installed similar nose caps myself, however I would be very curios to see your method of doing it Taylor, as often my self taught methods can be improved upon!
Curtis
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This is regressing just a bit to include the inletting of the nose piece/cap, which is done prior to inletting the entry pipe. Tom Curran and David Rase have both done great tutorials on this subject, but it would be good for continuum to have it here too.
This nose piece is a casting from Muzzleloader Builder's Supply, as recommended by Herb...a nice product. But for this application there was work to do before it could be used. It is for a 1 1/8" barrel, and I suspect, a solid steel under-rib. The tapered barrel on this build is about 1 1/16" at the end of the forestock, so the cap needed to be reduced to fit the barrel. I simply squeezed and hammered it to fit. Secondly, the rib I used is a hollow rib and is a bit deeper than the solid machined ones, so I had metal added via wire feed welder along the inside of the octagon. Then I filed it to fit the barrel. I know of no one who makes a Hawken nose piece for a 1 1/16" barrel, unfortunately. For my own Hawken build which I did several years ago now, I just made a two piece nose cap which was common on originals.
Since I use the ramrod pipes on the under-rib to drill the rod hole, the rib is permanently attached to the barrel. To fit the nose cap, I just turned the barrel upsidedown in the channel and inlet the nose piece as if the rib were not there. The first step in inletting is to mark the rearward most edge of the cap, and make a shallow cut with a fine tooth sharp saw. I use a dozuki from Lee Valley tools.
(https://preview.ibb.co/kWZdJc/100_4072.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d42nBx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kcnb4H/100_4073.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mH57Bx)
Now cut the vertical lines abut 1/16" deep ...
(https://preview.ibb.co/n1OzPH/100_4075.jpg) (https://ibb.co/giJoJc)
Begin by paring away the wood up to your saw cuts. In this pic and the last, you can see the barrel is upsidedown in the channel - the rib on the top.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mGnLWx/100_4076.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kiCnBx)
By using transfer pigment (Jarrow's inletting black, lipstick, Prussian blue oil paint) and sliding the cap rearward along the barrel, you can see where the wood is interfering with the cap and just carefully chisel it away, little by little until the cap goes all the way to the saw cut. You must not take away any more wood than is only required for the cap to slide back to it's final position...it needs all the support it can get, as this wood is quite thin here. Also, the cap must be all the way to the back with a nice wood to metal fit against the tip of the forestock, at the same time contacting the end of the stock with the inside end of the cap. And with only just a tiny clearance for the rib when the barrel in dropped down into the channel. Careful planning and patience....
(https://preview.ibb.co/gEGB4H/100_4077.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fpPaWx)
The cap is secured to the stock in this case with a #8 x 32 tpi machine screw with a countersink head, from the inside of the barrel channel. I drilled a #29 hole through the centre of the rod groove, re-installed the cap on the stock, and continued the hole up through the wood into the barrel channel. Then I drilled out the wood with a clearance drill bit, and cut a shallow countersink for the head of the machine screw, in the inside of the channel. With the cap firmly in place, I tapped the nose piece from inside the channel, installed the screw, and dressed off both the extra that came through the cap, and the head inside the channel. Make sure to maintain the slot in the screw, as you will want to be able to remove the cap for polishing etc. I ground the set off both sides of a hack saw blade to use for cutting my screw slots...makes nice thin screw driver slots.
(https://preview.ibb.co/eEDPPH/100_4078.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k1SjPH)
Now the barrel can be turned right side up and dropped into the channel. There should be enough clearance between the rib and the nose piece that there is no interference between the two. This is importance to the assembly of the rifle and to it's inherent accuracy. Too loose is better here than too tight.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gm8kWx/100_4079.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eDXCBx)
....and these final shots shows the relationship of all the components, with the entry rod pipe inlet.
(https://preview.ibb.co/k1A4PH/100_4092.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ei5tJc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/faY2Bx/100_4102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g89aWx)
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Not Taylor but the answer is yes - Don Stith's J & S Fullstock has a single trigger.
I there is a single trigger 1/2 stock in "Firearms of the American West 1803-1866" and I know of another but can't think of what book its in. The original owner traveled from the east coast to get it IIRC. Might have been in MB or Buckskin report or even FoAW already cited. It was also pretty short in the barrel IIRC.
Dan
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Not Taylor but the answer is yes - Don Stith's J & S Fullstock has a single trigger.
I there is a single trigger 1/2 stock in "Firearms of the American West 1803-1866" and I know of another but can't think of what book its in. The original owner traveled from the east coast to get it IIRC. Might have been in MB or Buckskin report or even FoAW already cited. It was also pretty short in the barrel IIRC.
Dan
Don Stith said I made a single trigger for him years ago. I don't remember it but do remember a double set for Tom Dawson that had to be set for every shot and also had to be set to cock the lock.Tom said the Hawken he copied had that terrible feature as well.
Bob Roller
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I prefer to make my own escutcheon plates. Then they fit the keys/slides perfectly, are a shape I can live with, and also fit the screws I have for attachment. I use 1/16" thick steel sheet for these, and have a template that I use to begin the shaping process. In this case, when I made my last Hawken rifle, knowing I had another soon after to build, I made all the plates for the two rifles at the same time, saving time later, and making a tedious job less so in the long run.
This is a picture heavy item, so I'll likely do it in a couple of installments. I first started by cutting a strip of steel from the larger sheet with the band saw, and then cut the individual pieces to length from it. A coating of lay-out blue ink allows one to trace a template and get them fairly uniform right off the get-go. I clamped the template over each of the pieces and traced the outline and screw holes with a sharp scribe. Here's some images to help explain this step.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gBeEPH/100_4195.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j0PQWx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dQguPH/100_4196.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jg2OJc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eu5ojH/100_4197.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hNQojH)
In that last picture, you can see the commercial escutcheon I used for the template. It has roughly the right shape, but the slot for the key is totally wrong. I'll try to explain how I improved the shape of these escutcheons in due course.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jsOPPH/100_4198.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dTKyjH)
Here, I have scribed a line through the centre line of the plates, simply bisecting the screw holes.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dYV4PH/100_4200.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j5HUrx)
Having already filed and polished the keys to 180 grit, I laid the key across the plate and marked the width of the slot to be cut. Then I centre punched three times along the centre line so that the outside holes will be within the margin for the key. Using a drill bit that is a few thou less than the thickness of the key, I drilled all five holes in each plate. I enlarged the screw holes as I got to that stage, and cut the countersink for the heads. When I cut the countersink, I set the drill press quill stop so that i got perfectly uniform countersinks. I amke the countersinks a little shallow of the screws's head so that there is metal to file away to bring them flush with the escutcheon pate at the finishing stage.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jzgB4H/100_4220.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dSundc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dR2OJc/100_4221.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mtZEPH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jj1YJc/100_4222.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cv4W4H)
Although this picture is misleading, you'll see that all the holes in the support board are at the edge. That's because I used a pair of vise-grip pliers to hold the plates for drilling. If you elect to use just your fingers to secure the plate, you'll end up with shorter fingers by the time you get them all done.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hBCZPH/100_4224.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gmLzrx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jgdKrx/100_4225.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dPHqyc)
To trim the extra metal away, I clamped one handle of a pair of metal shears in my vise, and easily cut away the waste steel.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jCk2dc/100_4226.jpg) (https://ibb.co/evOYjH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hFEHBx/100_4227.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j3Gm4H)
Here, I am cutting away the metal between the holes with a jeweller's saw. Careful to stay within the lines. Also, the outside metal has been ground and filed away to leave the approximate finished shape of the escutcheon.
(https://preview.ibb.co/c485yc/100_4228.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dEakyc)
Must break for lunch...more to come.
OK: I'll finish up this bit on escutcheon plates. Once the webs between the holes is cut away with the jeweller's saw, the slot is finished with filed so that the keys slide through nicely. Remember that the purpose of the escutcheon plates is simply to protect the wood around the key. It is not to provide friction to hold the barrel in the stock...that job is performed by the wood to metal fit within the stock itself. Reproduction efforts by Italian, Spanish, and American manufacturers miss this point, and their plates do all the work.
(https://preview.ibb.co/nemsdc/100_4229.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gNPOjH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gToSBx/100_4230.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bw13jH)
The second to last job before inletting these escutcheon plates, is to file the 'draft' onto the edges. I coat the edges of the plates with a felt pen, clamp it in the vise and file a gentle angle, removing just the black ink, and without disturbing the shape of the plates. All inlays are treated in this manner, so that as you remove wood from the edges of the inlet to drop the inlay into its mortise, the inlay becomes tighter and tighter, eliminating any spots where you may have removed too much wood...that's the theory anyway. This filing is best done while the plates are flat...easier to hold in the vise that way.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cjQkyc/100_4232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h1mErx)
The surface of the stock where these inlays will go is not flat...it has a subtle convex curve. Many builders miss this point and create a forestock that is referred to as "slab sided". Wood must be removed from the stock to within almost a knife edge at the barrel channel - not much more than 1/16" of a flat. To shape the curve into the escutcheon plates I use a four inch length of three inch diameter steel rod, which approximates the curvature of the stock, and a little plate if 1/4" thick steel I bent around this bar to duplicate that curve. I simply place the escutcheon plate on the big bar, countersinks up, place the 1/4" thick sheet over it, and strike it once with a hammer. The plate instantly takes on the curve of the bar. A tiny bit of filing may be required in the slots so that the key will pass, as curving the plate, even this small amount, will close the slot on the inside of the curve. Now the plates are ready for inletting into the stock.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gFLqWx/100_4233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nePHBx)
To begin inletting, install the key through a plate and slip it into the forestock. The barrel should be in the stock during this process so the key is doing it's work. Trace around the escutcheon plate with a sharp pencil, then remove the key and plate and with a variety of chisels and knives, inlet the plate. I use two different sweeps, a 1/4" gouge, and a 1/8" flat chisel for this work, as well as a short bladed 'chip' knife with a good thin point. I find Exacto blades to be too flexible, but the shape of a # 11 is right.
(https://preview.ibb.co/fKokWx/100_4258.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hz6Hdc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mO0cdc/100_4259.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d1S14H)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mdK3Jc/100_4260.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nBvcdc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jNwiJc/100_4261.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cuPsBx)
I inlet the plate until it is almost flush with the surface of the stock, leaving just a bit to file off flush with the surface when the screws have been installed. In this shot, you can see the countersink holes have been centre punched for the drilling of the screw holes.
(https://preview.ibb.co/g2G5Wx/100_4262.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nhmTjH)
This image shows the screws run in...sometimes the heads of these little screws are not perfectly formed. To make them perfectly formed and to ensure that the slots are deep enough to accommodate the filing or dressing down to the wood, I often swage the screw's heads in a plate that I have prepared by drilling a clearance hole and countersink, inserting a screw and hammering it into the countersink. Then I recut the slot with a hack saw blade from which I have removed the set on both sides. This image is a little out of focus, unfortunately. My apologies.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mWNvWx/100_4263.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d26NBx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/b6bdjH/100_4264.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVf4PH)
I usually inlet both the plates for a Hawken rifle on one side before I flip the rifle over, and do the other side. the other side is done exactly the same way I did these: slide the key through the plate, slip it into the stock, trace, inlet, screw it down, dress it off.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gzDkWx/100_4266.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iAO8jH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/i0MHdc/100_4267.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eHaM4H)
There - another job done. Now, the toe plate...
(https://preview.ibb.co/i7XJjH/100_4269.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gpeyjH)
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Awesome.
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your inletts are superb, nice work.
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It occurred to me that it might be useful to show the chisels I use for inletting these oval escutcheon plates. They consist of a thin flat chisel about 7/64" wide with a rounded cutting edge, a Phiel sweep a little over 5/16" wide, a 1/4" Swiss made gouge, and a Phiel chip knife. All these tools get stoned and polished smooth and sharp.
(https://preview.ibb.co/gbNR4H/100_6041.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHgxBx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gwR8Jc/100_6042.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kZDoJc)
The prick punch I made from a dental 'scaling' tool. I heated the point red, straightened it , and ground a sharp point. It is good for scribing an outline through layout ink on metal, and for marking a screw hole. The 1/16" pilot drill follows this piercing well.
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The toe plate:
I first cut two strips from a sheet of .064" thick steel to length and mark the centre lines. the pattern for the forward tip is included in this image.
(https://preview.ibb.co/btJmoc/100_5989.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nCJVEH)
Once the pattern has been traced and cut on the plates, I filed draft into the decorative tip. The plate on the left has been filed, while the other awaits this step. Notice the felt pen marking...once this is filed off, it is done. I've put them together for the photo to show the steps. The two holes for attachment screws are drilled at this time. I used # 6 x 3/4" countersink screws. The countersink in the plate is done later...for now, just the clearance holes for the screws.
(https://preview.ibb.co/eK1p8c/100_5990.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dmQGoc)
Using the holes to mark the location of the screws, I located the position of the plate. I have already ground the tail end of the plate at an angle that I hope will be close to the angle of the plate and the butt plate's toe. I do this on the belt grinder, and tune it with a fine file as needed when fitting. The centre of the circles that indicate the locations is pricked with the dental tool punch described above. Then the holes are drilled with a portable electric drill and a 1/16" bit. Choose a bit that is appropriate for the screws you are using.
(https://preview.ibb.co/ewQGoc/100_5997.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ccXwoc)
Screw the plate down to the wood. I put the screws in the vise and with a hack saw blade from which both sides of the set have been ground off, I cut the slots a little deeper. This ensures that when I dress off the oval heads flat, I don't remove all of the slot. With the bottom line of the butt stock parallel to the bench, the toe plate should be located so that the butt end of the plate is directly above the very inside tip of the butt plate. This is hard to describe. If you locate the plate too far to the rear, you'll end up filing some off to get it to mate with the butt plate...too far forward, and you will have a gap, and have to continue removing wood to finally come to rest steel on steel.
(https://preview.ibb.co/nQgYZH/100_5992.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jSDQgx)
Having traced around the decorative end, I drew a line on each side of the stock 1/16" below the surface. I filed off the wood angling up to the centre from each side until I reached the lines, and then with chisels removed the remainder, finally inletting the forward end. Once down and fitting nicely, I screwed it down hard once more and checked for gaps and high spots. When all was good, I countersunk the two holes being aware that only the domed top must remain above the plate's surface, and returned the plate and the screws to their positions. I laid a straight edge on the stock and toe plate lining up the 1/8" border of the trigger plate and the tip of the butt plate, and drew a line marking the edge to which I must file. Then I rasped off the screw heads and dressed the sides of the plates off to the wood. I filed everything with a single cut mill bastard, ready now for polishing.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mM7CTc/100_6005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/koXe8c)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bvacuH/100_6001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nMJK8c)
I see I have included a picture from the full stock build to show the inlet in the second to last picture... didn't have an image from the half stock build, but they are virtually the same, especially in context.
All of the inetting is now finished on both rifles. I have to make a front sight for the half stocked rifle, and cut the dovetails for both the front and rear sights. Then it's scrape, sand, polish, and finish. I am pleased that some of your have found this "Hawken stuff" useful. I'll happily try to answer any questions that you might have and encourage you to tackle a Hawken build yourself. Inletting is inletting, but there are some idiosyncrasies with the Hawken that one must pay attention to, to get a credible recreation.
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Well presented, Taylor - as usual. :)
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Taylor, it has been a great pleasure watching the progress on the rifle. I am very much looking forward to taking it out for the first time. It will always be special to me.
Wolfe
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Taylor,
With such shallow screw slots in the escutcheon screws,will you be removing the screws and escutcheons for bluing/browning?
Thanks,
Kevin
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No. Once the metal and wood is polished together, that's it. They receive no other finish...they're finished with the wood. Another way to do this job would have been to cut a shallower countersink and file off the screw head slots altogether, making these inlays permanent. But original Hawken rifles always show the slots.
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Nice and neat craftsmanship , Taylor.
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Taylor,
I'm building my son a hawken and this thread has been berry helpful. My barrel is only 30" long 40 cal, I was thinking of only installing 1 pin on the barrel will that affect accuracy?
Thanks
Greg
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No. Once the metal and wood is polished together, that's it. They receive no other finish...they're finished with the wood. Another way to do this job would have been to cut a shallower countersink and file off the screw head slots altogether, making these inlays permanent. But original Hawken rifles always show the slots.
What would be the method used to color the metal? Or was it normal that they were left in the white?
I guess they could be browned on the stock, but would one would need to be super careful while applying the solution.
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From what I have heard. The barrels were charcoal blued. the trigger guard, breach and breach tang were color case hardened. Not sure on the triggers possibly case colored as well. The Hawken rifle at the Museum of the fur trade in Nebraska has some original finish still intact to tell the tail.
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This is one of the pictures I've posted before of the last Hawken rifle I built - a pistol gripped model. You can see the various finishes on the steel, ie: case/pack hardened, rust blued, and left bright. The escutcheon plates on originals may have been case hardened - don't know. But they were not blued or browned, as far as I can tell.
(https://preview.ibb.co/e4QwMx/100_4478.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gkiSTc)
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Thanks Taylor. I actually like various metal finishes on rifles. Ads even more interest.
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One key: I built a Hawken rifle back in the early 80's using a 32" barrel, one key and a murtle wood stock. It was every bit as accurate as any rifle I've made. The one key did not effect accuracy.
About using diminutive barrels to build a Hawken rifle: unless you're making a 'made for local trade' Hawken, which usually had smaller calibres and finer barrels (not as beefy), it will be difficult to get the architecture right. The plains rifle almost always has a barrel that is a minimum of 1 1/16" AF and may be as much as 1 3/16" or larger. These are robust and voluptuous rifles - not your usual squirrel rifle type.
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I do not believe that you can build a 'true' plains S. Hawken rifle that is only 8 1/2 or perhaps even 9 or 9 1/2 pounds. Taylor's own .62 with the tapered barrel, is close to 11 pounds. Buddy Ron shot that one today & well at that.
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Nice Hawkins rifle.....
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Thank you St. Michael!!
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Let's not get carried away now!
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I do not believe that you can build a 'true' plains S. Hawken rifle that is only 8 1/2 or perhaps even 9 or 9 1/2 pounds.
He uses helium in his manufacture!
Fred
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I do not believe that you can build a 'true' plains S. Hawken rifle that is only 8 1/2 or perhaps even 9 or 9 1/2 pounds.
He uses helium in his manufacture!
Fred
First you would have to define "true".
This rifle weighs 9 pounds. Its a circa 1830 J&S. I would call it a plains rifle.
http://collections.centerofthewest.org/treasures/view/firearm_rifle_jacob_and_samuel_hawken_st_louis_mo_j_s_hawken_half_stoc
There are others that were made with shorter barrels that probably weigh 8ish but all my reference stuff is still boxed.
Dan
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Yes Dan, it most certainly is a plain's rifle & the name on the barrel surely identifies it, doesn't it. I did not know ANY of decent calibre were made that light - but - are there any S.Hawken rifles that light? Just wondering.
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That J&S has a lot of character. Really like it. Seems pre-classic.
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That rifle you presented, Dan, appears to me to have had the barrel bobbed, by about 10 or 11 inches. That would raise the weight on the original configuration to well over 10 pounds, I would think. It's not the overall weight that makes the rifle, it's the diameter across the flats, and the length. Nice seeing pictures of originals.
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That rifle Dan pictured looks like one from the Dr. Ken Leonard collection. The late Dr. had one of if not the largest collections of Hawken rifles known. He was a member of the same collector group I belong to and he was considered the authority on Hawken rifles at one time.
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This thread, with some expansion, would make a great "how to" for a Hawken rifle builder. Hint, hint.
Roger B.
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This thread, with some expansion, would make a great "how to" for a Hawken rifle builder. Hint, hint.
Roger B.
I agree. Taylor has a way of clearly explaining things. Between this, his related tutorials and his other Hawken threads, he could put together a really nice PDF type of booklet.
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I think it would be interesting if you have the time to show us how you make your own nosecaps. They look like a challenge to me.
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Steve: making your own nose cap leaves you many more options that trying to make a casting work. To make my Hawken two piece cap, I made a steel former to replicate the tip of the forestock minus 1/16" of wood. I used 1/16" steel sheet, formed the rod groove, and hammered over the tapers on the tip. Then I fitted a second piece of steel to close the front, and silver soldered them together under red heat. Finally, I filed out the steel in the end to accommodate the barrel.
I've been using castings from MBS on Herb's recommendation, but they need quite a bit of work to make them work. They are cast for a 1 1/8" bbl. and for a tapered barrel, they need to be 1 1/16" approx. So they need pinching to close on the barrel, but it's easy to do. then they need to be wire feed welded in the octagonal opening so that I can file fit them to the barrel and have enough steel to match the underrib. If you use a machined solid rib such as those sold by TOW, they're fine as cast, but with a rolled sheet metal one from Rice, or a milled hollow rib from MBS there isn't enough height in the cap from the rod groove to the bottom flat of the barrel. So the welding. The two piece is easier to make and use, but cannot be pack hardened, because of the silver braze.
Roger and Clark: I have no interest in 'expanding' this thread to make it into a PDF booklet. I just wanted to touch on a few of the features of Hawken rifles that might be leaving question marks on some folks minds. Apart from these, much of the building is very much the same as any other muzzle loading firearm. And the way I've presented is simply my way - arguably not the best way either. I'd be pleased to have others present alternative methods - builders such as Dave Rase, Don Stith, Louis Parker, and Herb. A friend of mine is currently building a Hawken for himself. He made a jig that attaches to the barrel to align the deep hole drill for cutting the rod hole without using the rod pipes and rib, as I do it. It's ingenious and works perfectly, and can be adjusted so that the hole parallels the bore rather than the bottom flat. This leaves more wood on the bottom of the lower forestock - a plus.
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Yes, it would make a good tutorial on the Hawken rifle.
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Taylor, Back on page two you mentioned using red heat to modify the front trigger. It almost looks like you flattened it some while bending it some. After doing this was any heat treating needed for the trigger? Would a turbo map gas torch be hot enough to do this as the cross section is so small? Thank You, Dan
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There are two styles of Hawken triggers sold by L & R. One has a straight front trigger that has no shoe, and the other's front trigger has a curved front trigger WITH a shoe. I used red heat to take some of the exaggerated curve out of the front trigger of the second style, as well as to set it at the correct attitude relative to the rear one. While doing this heating, I clamped the working part of the trigger in the jaws of my bench vise, so that that area was not effected by the heat. So no further heat treating was required on the front trigger.
One of the images of the trigger sets for these two rifles, early in the thread, shows both styles of triggers...front trigger with and without the shoe.
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Thanks, I see on TOW. I guess this is one of the problems of buying a parts set without knowing all these details. I will see if the curved front trigger will fit if it was supplied with the straight trigger. I bought my parts set from a company primarily known for stocks. The wood they supplied is great and I am very happy with it. I am sure if I would have known and asked they would have been happy to supply what I wanted. Dan
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There are two styles of Hawken triggers sold by L & R. One has a straight front trigger that has no shoe, and the other's front trigger has a curved front trigger WITH a shoe. I used red heat to take some of the exaggerated curve out of the front trigger of the second style, as well as to set it at the correct attitude relative to the rear one. While doing this heating, I clamped the working part of the trigger in the jaws of my bench vise, so that that area was not effected by the heat. So no further heat treating was required on the front trigger.
One of the images of the trigger sets for these two rifles, early in the thread, shows both styles of triggers...front trigger with and without the shoe.
In the past I've made double set triggers with a curved front trigger,supposedly for use in a smaller
guard bow.I thought it looked better on a Mauser or a percussion Schuetzen Rifle.
Bob Roller
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There are a few Hawken rifles with a curved front trigger, as supplied by TOW, but the majority are straight or almost so. Most too, have a shoe...are not filed smooth along the sides. L & R"s curved front trigger will drop into the same plate as the one with the straight trigger.
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That rifle you presented, Dan, appears to me to have had the barrel bobbed, by about 10 or 11 inches. That would raise the weight on the original configuration to well over 10 pounds, I would think. It's not the overall weight that makes the rifle, it's the diameter across the flats, and the length. Nice seeing pictures of originals.
Well I will be dipped. (from the "dip" in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"). Taylor I cannot tell you how many times I have looked at photos of this rifle (Since Baird first wrote it up 1967-68 ) and even seen it in person a few times and I never noticed the barrel being shortened. ??? ::) Baird does not mention it either in skimming his write up. I bet that someone DID cut about a foot off it so it could easily have been 42-44 originally and 12+ pounds. Baird does list it at 10.5 pounds. In looking at it at Cody it almost looks like the barrel has a slight swamp. Baird says its 1 1/16" breech and 1 at the muzzle. But the rifle is near vertical as it is/was displayed so its hard to tell due to the angles and the case its in etc.
The later barrels got heavier. I think there are a couple of reasons I have been over this with Mad Monk over the years. One, the powder got a lot better after 1800, more pressure, the percussion system tended to make a steeper initial pressure curve (some FLs in Britian when converted to percussion, burst) AND the later Hawkens are prone to having steel barrels rather than iron. Since it was hard to control the alloy this could be a factor. I also suspect the the increase in the use of the Picket Bullet may have resulted in heavier barrels being made by the barrel makers since that was what they got the most orders for. ? Lots of Squirrel Rifles with small bores are far heavier than they needed to be. We know there was at least one Hawken in a book ("Wah To Yah and The Taos Trail" IIRC) that was said to have shot a bullet 1 inch long. But I don't recall seeing one with a muzzle turned for a starter and either a starter or a false muzzle with a starter is needed for the picket. Then of course we have the small buttplates found on the percussion rifles making the weight a good idea. I don't know. All I know is compared to this rifle many of the later rifles especially the "S" versions are huge.
Its third from the right here.....
(https://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Cody%20Guns/P1030243.jpg)
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By the way the 1836 Atchinson Hawken has the same variant lock plate shape. So the rifle perhaps dates to the early 1830s.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi199%2FDPhariss%2FCody%2520Guns%2FP1030171.jpg&hash=6f6f6faee0e1cba755dfb32375e534e6801bbfc9)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi199%2FDPhariss%2FCody%2520Guns%2FP1030096.jpg&hash=55c698b7eb7efe48894e25b7c47c65d5a4c6f072)
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I've resurrected this old thread just to show off the two Hawken rifles just finished. I may post pictures of them individually in a separate pair of threads.
Interesting to me at least, is the fact that I used the same bottle of Ferric Nitrate solution to stain both of these stocks. The percussion rifle, the darker of the two, is much harder maple. I think the flint rifle was a piece of Western broadleaf maple which I find almost always has flamboyant curl.
Well they are done, and will be going out to their new owners shortly, but first I get to shoot them to make sure everything functions as it should, and to roughly sight them in. That's always a pleasant day at the range for me, and the icing on the cake, so to speak.
I finished the steel with a slow rust brown, and the wood with Circa 1860 Tung Oil finish. The flintlock was in a fire which destroyed the stock of the previous rifle, and I simply burnished it with a soft wire wheel and left the finish as you see. I re-hardened and tempered the springs and the frizzen.
(https://preview.ibb.co/iMhFEH/100_6519.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nCB8ZH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/htfroc/100_6520.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fL4HTc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cDevEH/100_6521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iWj6Mx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gkqP8c/100_6522.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cmdY1x)
(https://preview.ibb.co/g2tY1x/100_6523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i5MxTc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bYb8ZH/100_6524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hxgaEH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dz1Lgx/100_6525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iFOoZH)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cbTcTc/100_6526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/htp6Mx)
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WOW & WOW!! Nice stuff.
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Very nice. The Hawken I am building will be better because you took the time to post this. Thank You. Dan
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That old goat hide is sure a nice back-drop for the rifles and parts.
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Daryl: I've been using that mountain goat skin for this job for a lot of years. It has the right amount of broken shadow that even being white, it doesn't overload the camera into overexposure. Even with the florescent lighting, I get pretty realistic colour.
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It is always gratifying to me to see how much enthusiasm ol Jake and Sam'l still generate today,and this is just us guys on here.Taylor,you should write a book on these guns,get in cahoots with Dan'l Pharris,man what a read this is.Best regards,Dave F in Wva hills ;D