AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: AZshot on May 03, 2020, 01:00:30 AM
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I haven't been on here long, but I've been shooting muzzle loaders a long time. 40 plus years.
Reading a different post, a tangent comment about "throwing the rod" was discussed. Funny thing is, that's how I've always finished ramming, I raise the ramrod (wood) a few inches, and toss it down onto the ball until it bounces. It's not done with much force, and just a light wooden ramrod. I'm not sure when I started doing this, or why. I kind of think I glommed onto it myself, realizing that when it bounces it's seated and compressed. Maybe uncle Jebediah showed me at those early mountain turkey shoots. Maybe I read it in a 70s buckskinner article. However, it became a deeply set habit, I've done it for decades.
Researching this site, I see posts going back in time about this. I see several people did it in the past. I also see several people that say you should NOT do it. (I also blow down the muzzle after a shot, but that's for a different post).
The reasons to do it that I always felt were:
1. Consistent, standardized compression. To me, just pushing the rod and feeling the crush of the last few milimeters always makes me wonder if it would be the same each load. As fouling increases, the pressure needed to move the patched ball down the barrel increases. Often there are tight spots, and you just get a different feel every few shots. At least I do. I felt that when the powder is tight enough to bounce the rod, it's the same. Yes, I mark my ramrod too.
2. Habit. I can't think of any other reasons. But I've always done it.
Reasons I've read here to not do it are:
1. You can wear down your bore rifling. Really? With a wood rod? Hasn't happened to any of my rifles.
2. You compress the powder. That's a good thing for accuracy, at least in Black Powder Cartridge Rifle shooting. I also compress in my cap and ball Colts.
3. You can "crush the powder". I don't believe this one. People have pulled black powder loads from compressed cartridges and there is no breaking of the grains. What I think happens is the charcoal/wood can be compressed and doesn't break unless you really smash it. In BPCR it's common to compress a load by several 1/16ths.
4. You might set off the load. I don't think so, but I know other people hammer on the end of the rod after it's seated with a block or their hand. What's the difference, in PSI for how I do it?
Anyone out there still "throw the rod?" I didn't know this was a named technique, I just did it. I suppose I could do some accuracy testing doing it, and not doing it.
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I do it like you I have been doing it for over 40 years. I have a 36 cal. Rifle with a Douglas barrel I have been throwing the rod in since 1976 an it still shoots great. Oh yea I blow down the barrel to!
Mike
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What is vitally important is the consistency with which you load your rifle, shot to shot. First, if you have any fouling building up your load is not correct, or your cleaning regime, and thus a rough barrel. Second, pushing the patched ball with the rod down until it is FIRMLY SEATED ON THE POWDER, is all that is required or wanted.
The biggest detriment to 'throwing the rod' is the damage it does to the surface of the ball. I cannot image how a ball that has been struck several times randomly cannot be deformed, and as a consequence, inaccurate, especially out past 50 yards.
I neither throw the rod or blow down my muzzle.
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Thanks, that is the other hypothesized detriment I have heard, that the ball will be deformed. I have a couple thoughts on this:
1. The ball will get deformed with any loading technique. First by the ramrod pushing it, probably just slightly. Then as the soft, pure lead obturates or "bumps up" as the pressure and kinetic energy accellerate it down the bore. The retrieved balls I've found always have a cylindrical band around their center from this.
2. It's not like a round ball, even if it remains completely round, is very aerodynamic. It's ballistic coeffecient would be somewhere between an acorn and a pumpkin. Would a few marks from the soft ramrod wood change it's flight?
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Taylor is simply saying the ball will become even more damaged. I concur with this, but as well, the powder is crushed and turned into dust under the ball if seated in that manner.
This "mealing" of the powder cannot be a good thing, although I have not tested this myself. Too, if the barrel is hot and the powder is hot, is there not a possibility of compressing
the powder in this manner causing the powder to detonate? Or is that a myth/old wives tail?
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I slide the rod down firmly until seated, the same every time. Then holding the end of the rod I tap, tap, tap, firmly but don’t throw the rod. I can do this repeatedly the same time after time. Which is what I’m after. Repeatability. Not perfect, as a bench shooter will tell you, but repeatable.
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I slide the rod down firmly until seated, the same every time. Then holding the end of the rod I tap, tap, tap, firmly but don’t throw the rod. I can do this repeatedly the same time after time. Which is what I’m after. Repeatability. Not perfect, as a bench shooter will tell you, but repeatable.
Yes, that's what I do. Tap. Like the title of the post says.
Taylor is simply saying the ball will become even more damaged. I concur with this, but as well, the powder is crushed and turned into dust under the ball if seated in that manner.
This "mealing" of the powder cannot be a good thing, although I have not tested this myself. Too, if the barrel is hot and the powder is hot, is there not a possibility of compressing
the powder in this manner causing the powder to detonate? Or is that a myth/old wives tail?
Hi, I think it was your posts over the years talking about powder being "mealed" to "dust", but I've never heard it anywhere else. Like I said, I've pulled heavily compressed loads and the powder is exactly the same. And I'm not talking about wailing on the rod. It is just a few oz of pressure to bounce it, and usually only takes 2 or 3 pings.
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I slide the rod down firmly until seated, the same every time. Then holding the end of the rod I tap, tap, tap, firmly but don’t throw the rod. I can do this repeatedly the same time after time. Which is what I’m after. Repeatability. Not perfect, as a bench shooter will tell you, but repeatable.
Yes, that's what I do. Tap. Like the title of the post says.
I wasn’t arguing with you brother...
Funny thing is, that's how I've always finished ramming, I raise the ramrod (wood) a few inches, and toss it down onto the ball until it bounces.
I read this and thought I’d post my way....it’s all good.
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I was taught by a fiercely competitive target shooter who brings back medals regularly from Friendship. He totes several rifles specifically made to win specific matches.
He was the one who taught me to avoid the old saw of bouncing a rod off the ball. He explained that is an old holdover from the military days of muskets with heavy rods, and making sure the ball was all the way down on top of the charge. I agree with Taylor, you gain nothing other than deforming a ball by bouncing a rod today. I've seen some of the tiny 25, 50, 100 and 100+ group targets shot in competition. Yes, a deformed ball would widen those groups.
The question I would ask is what is gained by bouncing a rod? With a consistent moderate pressure on a rod you get consistent seating, no air gap, and consistent accuracy. How does bouncing a rod improve any of those things?
Marc
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Shooting cast balls with a sprue, is the ball not already deformed? I don't think a little bouncing of the rod will hurt anything.
Just my $.02 worth.
Percy
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As to where this mealing of the powder came from, it was a re-print of (mid 1800's) old text talking about a contest where the competitors were 'throwing' the rod onto the ball to get it the final distance onto the powder, until the rod bounces> "look there, he throws the rod onto the ball, deforming it and mealing the powder" - might not be exact, but is it close enough.
The throwing of the rod was military - and when the States bought "Tige" & "Delvinge" chambered rifles from France and Austria just before the civil war, the throwing of the rod onto the ball
actually made sense then, as both chamber types required this method to upset the ball, either onto the post in the Tige or the stepped powder chamber of the Delvinge chambers. The military, loading "by the numbers", had the soldier "throw" the rod onto the ball 3 times to ensure it was seated.
If you want to 'throw' or 'bounce' your rod onto the ball - have at it.
If you don't think it hurts anything, that's fine too.
Ever see an accuracy shooter doing this - at friendship, a plank or chunk shoot or elsewhere?
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you know I was just thinking about this a couple of days ago when I was shooting. When I shoot a RB rifle I seat the ball, then I smack it with the range rod 3 times. It is part of my routine and does not feel right if I dont do it. I also do not think that I am gaining anything by doing it.
When I shoot my long range bullet rifles, I never would do this as I do not want to damage the nose of the bullets.
I dont know that my accuracy is hurt with the round ball and hitting 3 times with the loading rod but I should stop doing it.
Fleener
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The military, loading "by the numbers", had the soldier "throw" the rod onto the ball 3 times to ensure it was seated.
They also shot bare balls and subsequent shots in a fouled barrel it would have ensured that the ball was seated on the powder.
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I've never been a paper punching bullseye shooter. I prefer trail walks etc. seems to me, that we probably put more emphasis on these little details than our predecessors. They shot to feed and protect their families, AND I'm sure to compete with friends for fun. Closest to an "X" on a board, etc.
Can't imagine they weighed balls, mic'd their patch materials, or worried whether the surface of their round balls had a scratch on them.
There are many, many out there that can shoot MUCH better than myself, but I'm sure not many of them have more fun.
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Dane: I'm with you. My match shooting days are over. I just shoot a bit on my range and hunt. I am happier with a well functioning flintlock than a minute of angle flintlock. I usually give the ball a just light tap. Because( more than once :-)) instead of the powder giving a bit, I have felt a solid hit against the breechplug indicating a dry ball.
As for pounding til you compress the powder I see nothing to be gained by pounding the ball. A firm consistent push will work to seat the ball, but smack it 15 times if it makes you happy. It's your rifle. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla so every one will have a choice. ;D
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I think we are getting options or facts from two different schools of shooting. I for one consider myself a traditional shooter. I enjoy hunting and for competition shooting I enjoy woods walks. I use what some would consider a loose patch and ball no short starter needed.When I say throwing the rod what I am doing I seat the ball snuggly then back up a few inches give it a little push a let it go. Normally on the first release I don't get a bounce the second go I get a small bounce back that tells me ball is seated. Prime her up and make smoke!
Then we have the competitive paper shooter who I have to admire because of their patience to put in the hours needed to develop the best load for a particular rifle or smoothbore. What traditional shooters and target shooters find as acceptable accuracy are different there for loading methods are different.l am happy with keeping my shots within the kill zone of a deer at 50 to 75 yards and hitting gongs and other things people come up with at unknown distances in the the woods. Just my opinion.
Mike
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We have a postal shoot going on right now. You shooters who throw the rod to seat the ball, pls. post a target to show how well this works for you.
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I am a non throwing loader, I shoot a tight combo so my patched ball goes down to the powder on the push down so there is no need to go any farther. If you shoot a lose load maybe you need to hammer the load down past all that fouling.
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I am a non throwing loader, I shoot a tight combo so my patched ball goes down to the powder on the push down so there is no need to go any farther. If you shoot a lose load maybe you need to hammer the load down past all that fouling.
I think that’s the nail on the head.
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We had a shooter /competitor at our matches who brought a bathroom scale with him . Range rod was pushed down and the ball seated with the same pressure every time ! I've also seen a range rod with a "pressure" device which worked something like a torque wrench, clicking when the desired pressure was achieved. " Kadooty" rod seems to ring a bell. I just use a steady pressure down on the rod and seem to be able to get repeatable results. What ever works for you :D
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When I can get to the range, I'll try some groups both ways. Like I said, I don't know if there is a real advantage. I also don't know if there is a disadvantage. That's what I like about the Scientific Method, you make a hypothesis, then test it. I imagine there will be little difference seen in group size. Probably the only thing I gain is my tradition is kept, it's like a superstition perhaps. I'll try to test and report back if I seen any difference between pushing the round home with hand pressure, and doing that then following it with a few light taps of the rod until it bounces. Note I have said several times I do not "throw" the rod, or hammer it, or use anything more than about 8 inches of rod lift off the ball. It's probable just a few ounces of pressure.
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I sometimes load in different manners depending on the situation.
If the gun is clean, after starting the ball I choke up on my loading rod and push the load down the barrel, one final push and it seats itself onto the charge.
Then one final push “crunch “ the powder somewhat.
Sometimes I bump the rod, sometimes I don’t.
I’ve never seen where it affected my accuracy one way or the other.
I drive my ball into the bore with a mallet, sure it deforms the ball.
I can’t see that makes any difference in my way of shooting either.
However most of my shooting is at 75 yards of less... others mileage may vary.
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The military, loading "by the numbers", had the soldier "throw" the rod onto the ball 3 times to ensure it was seated.
They also shot bare balls and subsequent shots in a fouled barrel it would have ensured that the ball was seated on the powder.
Exactly - that is why they did it. When the US bought those weird chambered guns, the 'exercise' was maintained with even more purpose.
The nose of the ball or bullet is of little consequence, even in modern guns. It is the base of the bullet where it obtains it's "steerage" from. It is the change in the diameter
of the ball from premature slugging up and the crushing of powder granuals that I protest which is why I posted concerning the "throwing of the rod" in the first place - prior to this.
A 25 yard contest will likely show nothing in group size difference, not matter how you seat the ball. 25 yards is rather inconclusive for any worthwhile deliberation, aside from perhaps offhand
shooting group ability. That does mean something.
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At our annual Provincial rendezvous, I have seen shooters on the line throwing the rod down the bore until it bounces right out of the rifle and they catch it in their hand. I just shake my head without comment.
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Funny/odd - maybe? I've never seen a rod thrower in the winner's circle & there are a few of them at the Hefley Creek Shoot & ours.
However, if it works for you, keep doing it! :)
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It seems to work for me. I out shoot most people I'm around, and have my whole life. Maybe if I stopped tapping the rod, I'd beat a few more. But I haven't competed with blackpowder in 20 years or so. When I pull out a gun though, I usually do quite well, with the techniques I use. I'll experiment to see if this technique does anything to increase accuracy. If it doesn't, but doesn't decrease accuracy, I'll keep doing it because I like it and always have.
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At our annual Provincial rendezvous, I have seen shooters on the line throwing the rod down the bore until it bounces right out of the rifle and they catch it in their hand. I just shake my head without comment.
;D Wadcutters make pretty holes in paper. I bet a brass rod makes wadcutters even faster.
I too started out bouncing a rod with my first BP gun. Then some many years later I came along here and did a lot of reading, and a little posting. Eventually I ran across rod bouncing discussed and from that discussion I decided to adopt the one open-handed whack* and done technique and shall ever more. *to the starter knob atop the rod end. That's what the hole is for. Daryl likely swayed me. I quit stick flippin' too...but that's another thread. ???
Maybe Bob could use this for a video topic-maybe even range test it.
AZ- go right ahead and do as you please. I was only relating how I came to how I load now.
another thought: I second the notion that entrants in the postal shoot indicate if they bounce the rod or not. Could be interesting if enough participate and enough data is collected.
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Ive been considering a chrono test with really compressing the load vs not. Good idea.
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Ive been considering a chrono test with really compressing the load vs not. Good idea.
Cools. I'm convinced that consistency of compression is critical to best consistency in velocities, but would consider any data to the contrary.
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I have done that, Bob. in both the .45 and .40's I had, that is, I tested merely seating the ball upon the powder, against giving the starter knob one smack with my palm
the starter being on the rod at that time.
The difference was quite enlightening. The velocities were spread a LOT more with just the seating the ball onto the powder as well as being on average, 100fps lower
in speed than the one hit delivered. As consistency is of prime importance in this game, I feel the potential for increased accuracy goes with consistent velocities. Most
often, over 10 shots, my velocities will not vary more than 10fps. I need every advantage I can get.
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I have done that, Bob. in both the .45 and .40's I had, that is, I tested merely seating the ball upon the powder, against giving the starter knob one smack with my palm
the starter being on the rod at that time.
The difference was quite enlightening. The velocities were spread a LOT more with just the seating the ball onto the powder as well as being on average, 100fps lower
in speed than the one hit delivered. As consistency is of prime importance in this game, I feel the potential for increased accuracy goes with consistent velocities. Most
often, over 10 shots, my velocities will not vary more than 10fps. I need every advantage I can get.
Good. I’d love to get that on video. It will put it down as indisputable. I’ll get that done this week. I’m thinking the firm press vs. the three hard tosses talked about in the thread. Any thoughts?
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I have done that, Bob. in both the .45 and .40's I had, that is, I tested merely seating the ball upon the powder, against giving the starter knob one smack with my palm
the starter being on the rod at that time.
The difference was quite enlightening. The velocities were spread a LOT more with just the seating the ball onto the powder as well as being on average, 100fps lower
in speed than the one hit delivered. As consistency is of prime importance in this game, I feel the potential for increased accuracy goes with consistent velocities. Most
often, over 10 shots, my velocities will not vary more than 10fps. I need every advantage I can get.
Good. I’d love to get that on video. It will put it down as indisputable. I’ll get that done this week. I’m thinking the firm press vs. the three hard tosses talked about in the thread. Any thoughts?
If I was testing it I'd compare: firm press, single palm tap, and the bang 'til she bounces (any consistent way). Indisputable? Hah! Great luck with that. Some had rather argue than eat. But it is likely that some minds could be swayed if you find a consistent and repeatable result, as Daryl did.
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I have done that, Bob. in both the .45 and .40's I had, that is, I tested merely seating the ball upon the powder, against giving the starter knob one smack with my palm
the starter being on the rod at that time.
The difference was quite enlightening. The velocities were spread a LOT more with just the seating the ball onto the powder as well as being on average, 100fps lower
in speed than the one hit delivered. As consistency is of prime importance in this game, I feel the potential for increased accuracy goes with consistent velocities. Most
often, over 10 shots, my velocities will not vary more than 10fps. I need every advantage I can get.
Good. I’d love to get that on video. It will put it down as indisputable. I’ll get that done this week. I’m thinking the firm press vs. the three hard tosses talked about in the thread. Any thoughts?
If I was testing it I'd compare: firm press, single palm tap, and the bang 'til she bounces (any consistent way). Indisputable? Hah! Great luck with that. Some had rather argue than eat. But it is likely that some minds could be swayed if you find a consistent and repeatable result, as Daryl did.
You’re probably right. I’m ever the optimist.
Sounds good. A 3 way test. Just seated vs single palm tap vs bang away til the rod bounces out (in a consistent way).
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And,, if you could, keep track of the group size too. ;D :)
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Once I've developed a load, I mark the ramrod at that level. Then I seat to that mark every shot. Not very scientific I guess, but it has always worked for me.
Dan
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We had a shooter /competitor at our matches who brought a bathroom scale with him . Range rod was pushed down and the ball seated with the same pressure every time ! I've also seen a range rod with a "pressure" device which worked something like a torque wrench, clicking when the desired pressure was achieved. " Kadooty" rod seems to ring a bell. I just use a steady pressure down on the rod and seem to be able to get repeatable results. What ever works for you :D
I just got a rod using locking spacers for target use ,made by Leihigh Hunting sold by Midway and gives repeatable compression shot to shot .No guess work required !
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I got in to this sport to keep things simple.I push the ball down to the powder, by feel and just try to do the same everytime.If I want to think to much and start sweating the small stuff I break out the modern stuff,LOL.
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It looks like someone did that test here: http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/bpcompress/bpcompress.html
His conclusion was, "I have heard people speak for and against the procedure of 'whanging', or bouncing the ramrod, but it gave the best results here."
Yet this writer has a very long essay on accurate muzzle loading, but just one sentence that says "don't hammer or bounce the rod." http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/index.php/developing-an-accurate-load-for-a-black-powder-muzzleloading-rifle
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Interesting that the loosest load blew patches for him and gave the worst grouping. I haven’t observed this but it could give insight into the occasional mystery blown patch.
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Loose load let’s gasses by causing patch damage.
Very interesting read posted above, it cause me too think of some things I do subconsciously....
Besides thumping the rod... occasionally, I’ve always shook the powder can prior to filling the horn .
I also shake my powder horn just before going shooting .
A habit I’ve formed over the years to assure the fine powder is mixed with the larger grains and that any clumps are broken up.
As too the testing, I can’t wait too see your results Bob.
Thanks for putting in the time that you do too promote our sport.
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I've got a question for those who claim that bouncing the ramrod on the ball when it can't be "pushed" any further down the bore, actually "deforms" the ball. Has such "deformation" actually been verified, and HOW was it "verified"?
The reason I ask this is, I am a ramrod "flipper" and after pushing the ball down as far as I can push, I give the ramrod a few flips until I get a bit of bounce back, which usually occurs on the third flip of the ramrod.
When I lived in Alaska, I used hardened balls for moose hunting, I cast .570 round balls and added a bit of tin to get the hardening for additional penetration and punching through big bone/rib if encountered.
I saw NO difference in the "flips" needed before getting the first bit of bounce with the ramrod when using a soft pure lead ball vs a hardened ball. One would think that if deformation of the ball was actually taking place during the flipping, it would take MORE flips to deform the harder balls before the ramrod's first bounce but I seen no indication of such.
So,... how do we know that flipping a wooden ramrod down on a ball that is sitting on/or close to the powder charge (which isn't a solid surface) actually causes ball deformation, and why is there no difference in the flips needed to create the same bounce when the hardness of the balls differ???????
IMO,.... shooting targets when comparing different loading techniques (to "seat a ball") has some variables, and provides no real concrete evidence whether deformation happens or not. It'll take actual ball measurements (after a ball is seated) to convince me deformation can/or does occur under the aforementioned way of loading I've described above.
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Loose load let’s gasses by causing patch damage.
I meant to say “not fully seated load” not ‘loose load’, sorry for the confusion. ;)
..Thanks for putting in the time that you do too promote our sport.
Thanks Smo. Very nice of you to say...
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I've got a question for those who claim that bouncing the ramrod on the ball when it can't be "pushed" any further down the bore, actually "deforms" the ball. Has such "deformation" actually been verified, and HOW was it "verified"?
The reason I ask this is, I am a ramrod "flipper" and after pushing the ball down as far as I can push, I give the ramrod a few flips until I get a bit of bounce back, which usually occurs on the third flip of the ramrod.
When I lived in Alaska, I used hardened balls for moose hunting, I cast .570 round balls and added a bit of tin to get the hardening for additional penetration and punching through big bone/rib if encountered.
I saw NO difference in the "flips" needed before getting the first bit of bounce with the ramrod when using a soft pure lead ball vs a hardened ball. One would think that if deformation of the ball was actually taking place during the flipping, it would take MORE flips to deform the harder balls before the ramrod's first bounce but I seen no indication of such.
So,... how do we know that flipping a wooden ramrod down on a ball that is sitting on/or close to the powder charge (which isn't a solid surface) actually causes ball deformation, and why is there no difference in the flips needed to create the same bounce when the hardness of the balls differ???????
IMO,.... shooting targets when comparing different loading techniques (to "seat a ball") has some variables, and provides no real concrete evidence whether deformation happens or not. It'll take actual ball measurements (after a ball is seated) to convince me deformation can/or does occur under the aforementioned way of loading I've described above.
It’s sort of a ‘two ways of thinking about it’ thing. Bench guys who use tubes to drop their powder, weigh their powder, and use the same pressure each time to gently seat the ball, etc. to put clover leaves on paper dislike things out of their control. The idea of tossing what is basically a blunt nosed arrow at a soft lead ball gives them the vapors....
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I've got a question for those who claim that bouncing the ramrod on the ball when it can't be "pushed" any further down the bore, actually "deforms" the ball.... It'll take actual ball measurements (after a ball is seated) to convince me deformation can/or does occur under the aforementioned way of loading I've described above.
I always assumed just pushing the ball down with a tight patch deforms it some, and bouncing the rod a couple times may do it some more. But my premise is it doesn't hurt accuracy. People shoot round balls with giant sprues of various sizes and shapes. if aerodynamics mattered with round balls, that would do it. Maybe it does...I always shoot swaged balls with no sprue.
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The reason I ask this is, I am a ramrod "flipper" and after pushing the ball down as far as I can push, I give the ramrod a few flips ...
When I used the term "flipper" I was speaking of swapping ends of the ramrod from the loops, not bouncing it. Those with tapered rods must swap ends or "flip", as I meant it. But those of us with straight rods can poke the loading end down under the lock and thus not have to swap ends of the rod every time we remove or replace it under the barrel.
I hope that's more clear now. Sorry for any confusion on that term.
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I think the only way to verify "ball deformation" during loading the traditional way, would be to remove the barrel's breech plug, dump the powder charge, and push the patched ball on through and do some measuring.
Anyone ever done this?
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The reason I ask this is, I am a ramrod "flipper" and after pushing the ball down as far as I can push, I give the ramrod a few flips ...
When I used the term "flipper" I was speaking of swapping ends of the ramrod from the loops, not bouncing it. Those with tapered rods must swap ends or "flip", as I meant it. But those of us with straight rods can poke the loading end down under the lock and thus not have to swap ends of the rod every time we remove or replace it under the barrel.
I hope that's more clear now. Sorry for any confusion on that term.
Actually I was describing the way I sort'a "flip" my ramrod down on the ball (when pushing no longer moves the ball downward) rather "throwing" the ramrod as someone else described. :)
So,... no problem. :) :)
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Wait...I thought Flipper was a dolphin. Or was that a porpoise?
This is great conversation and analysis. There are no wrong solutions with many things, just techniques.
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"Throwing the rod onto the ball" - again, is the military terminology - I read this in a book about the loading of a military musket/rifle, so it must be true.
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I can hear it now, two buckskins shootin at injuns...You get that one?...yup, but he ran a ways,he's down...LOL,told you not to compress that powder so much ::)
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Wait...I thought Flipper was a dolphin. Or was that a porpoise?
This is great conversation and analysis. There are no wrong solutions with many things, just techniques.
Funny, I thought Brian Keith was a Mountain Man....
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Wait...I thought Flipper was a dolphin. Or was that a porpoise?
This is great conversation and analysis. There are no wrong solutions with many things, just techniques.
Funny, I thought Brian Keith was a Mountain Man....
I doubt that is what Charles Heston called Brian when he got a facefull of gas from Brian's flint lock while they were laying low shooting at the indians. ;D
To Heston's credit as a great actor though, he did stick to the script so it was less noticeable to the viewers. :)
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...again each to their own. I was never shown the "bouncing the rod" system and early on none of my pals did it so I never tried it. If it makes you feel secure or are happy or it was the way you were taught who am I to criticize? Just keep shooting and having fun.
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...again each to their own. I was never shown the "bouncing the rod" system and early on none of my pals did it so I never tried it. If it makes you feel secure or are happy or it was the way you were taught who am I to criticize? Just keep shooting and having fun.
You have a great attitude, and I (for one) appreciate it. :)
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I don't drop or throw the rod onto the seated ball; I just try and seat with the same pressure each time, fairly firm pressure. I don't want to do anything that might adversely affect accuracy in my rifles. I mean, the round balls from my rifles already keyhole badly as it is. :o
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I skimmed thru this discussion and haven’t seen any mention about the shape of the rammer business end shape. If it was the same female shape of the ball used and you tapped it down would it distort the ball to have any affect on accuracy?
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All of my rods on the business end are concave in the shape of the ball.
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??? ???... doesn't anyone mark their rammer at the depth of their perfect load,...? :-\ :-\
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??? ???... doesn't anyone mark their rammer at the depth of their perfect load,...? :-\ :-\
The only mark on my ramrod is to indicate the barrel is empty,.... in case I want to check if the barrel is loaded before blowing down it.
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No marks on my rods. I can feel when the ball is on the powder - in every gun.
I don't need a mark to tell me when it's "there". They all load about the same
with the same basic "combination ratios" in each one, smooth or rifled. Similar
loading without any need or requirement for wiping.
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All of my rods on the business end are concave in the shape of the ball.
Same here, as well as my short starter shafts, short and long.
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All of my rods on the business end are concave in the shape of the ball.
Same here, as well as my short starter shafts, short and long.
You mean to tell me I shouldn't have been using that one that looks likes a large wood screw on the end ???
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"You mean to tell me I shouldn't have been using that one that looks likes a large wood screw on the end?"
To quote Jed Clampett, "I've got to have a loooong talk with that boy...…" ;D Hah!
(https://i.ibb.co/2WDT6ts/Jed.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Just seat ball firmly on powder....then 3 more firm seats....No Bouncing in the last 40 years for me.
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Just seat ball firmly on powder....then 3 more firm seats....No Bouncing in the last 40 years for me.
That's how i do it, but I've only got 30 years, and only 15 or so seriously working on my accuracy. I use three firmly held gentle taps, but any number will do, so long as you're consistent. 1-2 inconsistencies in your process and you're scratching your head trying to figure out why you're all over the place.
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I don't "throw the rod". One good push and it is seated to my satisfaction every time.