AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Feltwad on October 25, 2023, 08:26:23 PM
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Enclosed are images of a original Continental sxs percussion rifle in 16 gauge. The gun is fitted with set trigger the hammers have a external safety the patch box has a button operated for opening , the stock is continental walnut with a cheek piece . The barrels are steel both are rifled the left barrel has straight groves no twist but the right barrel has a fast twist the breech of the barrels also the standing breech are inlaid with gold and silver.
Feltwad
(https://i.ibb.co/XxC7qZN/100-5079.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kxr2JjR)
(https://i.ibb.co/pZJtdck/100-5081.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y8pzhmV)
(https://i.ibb.co/nD8pxZ8/100-5082.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p3rqYGr)
(https://i.ibb.co/0DmdQZn/100-5083.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0b3m75)
(https://i.ibb.co/9qqcC7Y/100-5085.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vJJVKSz)
(https://i.ibb.co/HqrQPd0/100-5086.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KW9HswY)
free image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/f8XN8CB/100-5088.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Y1jY5t)
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Interesting piece for sure. Does it have to have the triggers set to fire?
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Interesting piece for sure. Does it have to have the triggers set to fire?
No but triggers have been set to suit a shooter with the front trigger fires the left barrel and the back trigger the right barrel, each hammer has a safety external catch
Feltwad
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Ok, thanks for the info. That would be a great Boar or Bear gun.
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Although this thread is in the collectors forum not much interest .
Feltwad
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Interesting, but I don't have much to say. I could give you the common "nice gun" response I suppose. Continental guns of that period are far less popular over here than British guns of the same era. I find all old guns interesting.
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Very nice Feltwad, thank you. One question though, the rear sight appears to me as not being square to the barrels, is that camera lens distortion? Seems a gun of that quality would get that right.
Robby
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Very nice Feltwad, thank you. One question though, the rear sight appears to me as not being square to the barrels, is that camera lens distortion? Seems a gun of that quality would get that right.
Robby
Robby it is square to the barrels it looks distorted in the image
Feltwad
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Interesting, but I don't have much to say. I could give you the common "nice gun" response I suppose. Continental guns of that period are far less popular over here than British guns of the same era. I find all old guns interesting.
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I think that Americans having been at war with the Germans in one century might be in part reason to ignore a fine German double rifle as this.
The inletting and the metal work is as fine as anything produced in England.
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I think that Americans having been at war with the Germans in one century might be in part reason to ignore a fine German double rifle as this.
I don'r think so. Otherwise, why would Jaegers, Mausers, fine German optics, and other stuff be so popular.
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Although this thread is in the collectors forum not much interest .
Feltwad
Feltwad, please don't confuse our lack of comments with a lack of interest. I, as many other folks, always follow your postings (but only infrequently post comments). With your typical quality photos and descriptions, there is seldom any need to seek further information. .
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Interesting, but I don't have much to say. I could give you the common "nice gun" response I suppose. Continental guns of that period are far less popular over here than British guns of the same era. I find all old guns interesting.
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I think that Americans having been at war with the Germans in one century might be in part reason to ignore a fine German double rifle as this.
The inletting and the metal work is as fine as anything produced in England.
I think it's because the German work is a little more harsh, severe and less refined as compared to English work.
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I have a master for that trigger guard if anyone is interested in castings. I didn't know what it was for untill these pics.
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That should be a big seller ;)
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That should be a big seller ;)
That's why I haven't cast any yet! ;D
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I really appreciate this kind of post, and Feltwad's are always interesting. Although continental guns of this era weren’t in the direct line of influencing American longrifle development, they were parallel to our later percussion evolutions. The European guns of this period that I’ve studied are almost always better quality than the many more American ones I’ve been exposed to.
For this rifle, the unusual combination of a DOUBLE set trigger in front of the single “shotgun” trigger behind is very interesting. I am surprised to note that the right twist barrel is fired with the rear “shotgun” trigger, and the left "all-purpose” barrel uses the double set front trigger. Am I interpreting that collectly? It’s the oppisite of what I would expect. The interesting button release on the butt-trap cover is also a new one for me.
Keep up your posts, Feltwad. They are really appreciated, even silently.
Bill Paton
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Thanks everyone your comments are appreciated will sought out more images of this gun locks, trigger housing patch box
Feltwad
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Its a very nice and interesting gun, Mr G.
a close up of the different parts, and how the triggers work would be grand.
I have not seen 3 triggers before.
Details and photos of the butt trap and release would be wonderful too my old pal!
Hope you are still getting some shooting in at the crows and woodies!
Best regards,
Ricard.
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Enclose are extra images has promised
(https://i.ibb.co/19Wznkq/100-5102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GVSHJq2)
(https://i.ibb.co/n8Pkg40/100-5099.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tPLCmnh)
Type of fly in the sear and tumbler this lock works with the set trigger
(https://i.ibb.co/qdf8hQC/100-5106.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0LDGS9)
(https://i.ibb.co/2dtWwMJ/100-5105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rH6Fgp9)
(https://i.ibb.co/cD4jT3y/100-5110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GczqPpd)
Safety Catch
(https://i.ibb.co/GWHYDWL/100-5114.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8rYvwrp)
Lion Head for end
Feltwad
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Thanks for posting more photos. I really like the less refined, severe and harsh German rifles.
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I had a rifle similar to this years ago, about .50 caliber. It also had one barrel with straight rifling. Anybody have any thoughts on why both are the same caliber but rifled differently?
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I'm just guessing but a straight rifled Barre Might shoot shot better. :-\
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Interesting, lots of gadgets, but not my cup of tea. The first thought that went through my mind seeing this was halloween. I think this kind of stuff is an acquired taste.
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Interesting, lots of gadgets, but not my cup of tea. The first thought that went through my mind seeing this was halloween. I think this kind of stuff is an acquired taste.
Hallo ween it is always best to keep ones opinions too ones self we are all muzzle loaders which includes all disciplines
Feltwad .
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If we were to keep our opinions to ourselves, this forum would have very few posts! It's the nature of the beast. I would suggest thicker skin ;)
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If we were to keep our opinions to ourselves, this forum would have very few posts! It's the nature of the beast. I would suggest thicker skin ;)
Yes I agree but not sarcastic remarks we all are not like a horse that wears blinkers and only see one thing it can ruin a interest thread that some members still like with interest
Feltwad
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Hello Feltwad, I am sorry if I offended you. Writing on the internet is a very impersonal way of communicating. I had a smile on my face when posting. Some styles of guns/rifles are just ugly to my eye, and it genuinely reminded me of Halloween decoration. It was just my opinion, this forum is kept alive by it. I am sure the workmanship on that rifle is of the best, just the design is not pretty for me.
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Regardless of personal opinions on aesthetics :) I am still fascinated by this unique rifle. Early on, Feltwad stated that the right barrel’s rifling is fast twist while the left has straight rifling. Also it was noted later that the double set trigger complex fired the left barrel (which was an unepected surprise to me). In my experience searching out original double rifles, virtually all SxS double rifles with one straight-rifled barrel mount the twist-rifled barrel on the right, and use the front trigger to fire it. The recent post showing the locks notes that the right lock has a fly in the tumbler for the double set trigger.
I now assume the front double set trigger combination fires the right twist-rifled barrel as I would normally expect, and the rear “shotgun” trigger fires the straight-rifled left barrel with a lock lacking a fly in the tumbler. Is that correct, Feltwad?
Also, Brent English asked why the straight-rifled barrel is the same caliber as the twist barrel. A detailed discussion of straight rifling was started on March 16, 2014 by smylee grouch and is worth looking up. Many opinions exist about this issue. My take is that the straight-rifled barrel probably fires a patched ball a little more accurately than a smoothbore, and also can shoot shot better than a twist-rifled barrel. It’s convenient to have both barrels take the same size patched ball, and also have a barrel in the same gun for shooting small game shot.
Bill Paton
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I will do my best to explain the trigger mechanism and rifling . The first trigger is the set trigger which sets the right hand lock for the right hand barrel when the hammer is cocked it is either fired by the third trigger when not set or by the set trigger when set .The second trigger fires the left hand lock which fires the left hand barrel and is not set it is standard percussion . The rifling in the right hand barrel is 8 groves with 3 full turns the left hand barrel rifling is 4 broad straight groves. Hope that helps
Feltwad
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I like this gun, guess its my predominate German genes overriding my Scot/Irish, English, Viking, Welsh, Nordic, Scandinavian, (the list goes on :) ) genes.
Dennis
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I find SHOOTABLE & preserved rifles, smooth bores very interesting , the posted rifle is a fine example of what appears to be a shootable gun.
The OP has my thanks for taking time to share a interesting firearm.
I see several posts on this very Forum constantly of American made firearms non functional bits & pieces , rusty bore's 20% of the firearm is incomplete I own may 100 + year old firearms of many flavors they all are in regular shooting rotation I've never encountered on my several Firearm Forums the wall hangers- junk as posted here .
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Most of us are too old to keep our opinions to ourselves.
I have found the German vs English gun debate interesting for many years. We as Americans tend to like modern guns overbuilt yet we do not like carved stocks either.
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English guns have been imported into the US for hundreds of years now. People tend to like what they are familiar with. This has been an Anglocentric country for obvious reasons. German guns were never imported to this country in great numbers, until the end of the Spanish American war. All the German Mausers were taken as spoils of war. They were sold by Bannerman's for about $8.00 a piece.
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Feltwad,
Thanks for the clarificaton on the triggers and rifling. You caught me off guard with the three triggers, and really tripped me up with the separated double set trigger! Fascinating indeed. The shooter would have to keep a clear head when snap shooting at small game with the shot barrel! I have typically cocked both hammers at once when snap shooting, but with this gun I think I would learn to cock only the left lock when hunting with shot. Please keep these learning enigmas coming.
Bill Paton
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Interesting, but I don't have much to say. I could give you the common "nice gun" response I suppose. Continental guns of that period are far less popular over here than British guns of the same era. I find all old guns interesting.
.
I think that Americans having been at war with the Germans in one century might be in part reason to ignore a fine German double rifle as this.
The inletting and the metal work is as fine as anything produced in England.
I think it's because the German work is a little more harsh, severe and less refined as compared to English work.
The late John Bivins and I were discussing this while at Friendship and he said,"No matter how fine the German work was.the cloven hoof was always there". I agree with that.America has had to fight Germany twice in the 20th century and the words Blitz Kreig came into our
language.Hit hard,fast and keep moving.In the 1st World War Germany could not take Paris.The 2nd time.Hitler was a tourist in Paris and
wondering what to do with it now that he had it. >:(.Six weeks and Paris was done.
Bob Roller
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Lets stick to the subject of the Continental sxs rifle. Yes many countries suffered during that period but there is a place to discuss this am are right or wrong moderator .
Feltwad
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My Der Neue Støckel notes “Funk (Funck) Valentin Suhl 1858-70. p 408 (Vol 1)
Bill Paton
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My Der Neue Støckel notes “Funk (Funck) Valentin Suhl 1858-70. p 408 (Vol 1)
Bill Paton
Thanks Bill that is interesting
Feltwad
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My Der Neue Støckel notes “Funk (Funck) Valentin Suhl 1858-70. p 408 (Vol 1)
Bill Paton
In concurrence with Dr. Paton's input, here's the listing from Gardner's book on the Funk family of Suhl. Note especially the description of the last listing
(https://i.ibb.co/hcnF3cL/Screen-Shot-2023-10-31-at-12-34-42-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/bFy5cFQ)
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I think the above writings of the Funck family the last chapter sums it up on the Continental sxs rifle of this thread thanks to all
Feltwad
(https://i.ibb.co/GdqHSr0/100-5102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cyjYns1)