Author Topic: Another Kibler Colonial..... Some final comments on Jim's kit.....  (Read 25971 times)

Online Jim Kibler

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... DONE !!!!
« Reply #150 on: August 07, 2020, 06:03:07 PM »
That looks really nice, Dave.  I like the stock and metal finishing in particular.  The light patina seems to help everything come together.  Great work!

Jim

Offline Brian Jordan

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... DONE !!!!
« Reply #151 on: August 08, 2020, 11:50:44 AM »
Dave your work is always amazing!!
Elizabeth, PA

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... DONE !!!!
« Reply #152 on: August 08, 2020, 06:57:27 PM »
Oh my - lovely indeed. I'm not shocked, though - your work is never lacking in precision and execution.
Daryl

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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... DONE !!!!
« Reply #153 on: August 08, 2020, 08:26:38 PM »
Dave:  I really like this rifle.  I intend to build one of these for myself in .58 cal. and will borrow heavily from your work.  Outstanding decoration.

Question re engraving:  for the nick and dot, do you use a 'roll the graver ' technique rather than the plunge cuts that Schipper's describes?  Does your frizzen spark as well now as it did prior to annealing?  Really lovely rifle!!
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline mountainman

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... DONE !!!!
« Reply #154 on: August 08, 2020, 09:16:25 PM »
That is a great and beautiful Rifle!

Offline davec2

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... Some final comments on Jim's kit.....
« Reply #155 on: August 09, 2020, 09:26:13 PM »
Again, thanks to all for the kind words.
 
Heinz:  Matching of the patch box grain to the stock grain was Jim’s doing on this kit.  Not sure how he did it but I appreciate that he did do it.

Jim: Well no one would ever mistake this rifle for one you had completed but I am generally pleased with how it came out.  I will have some specific comments about the kit that may be of use to others who may be interested in purchasing one from you at the end of this note.  I can comment on the wood and metal finishing in another post if anyone is interested.

Taylor:  On the nick and dot, yes, I roll a flat graver.  I cut a straight line with a standard 90-degree graver.  Then I switch over to a flat graver.  Putting one corner of the flat in the cut line, I drive the graver in along the line but with the edge at an angle.  I roll the flat into the work and then back out again resulting in a little cut triangle.  So I am rolling the flat into and out of the original cut line and proceeding along the direction of the border rather than at 90 degrees to it.  I use the same flat graver to do the dots....and the same motion.....just very tiny and, obviously, with the point opposite the nicks.  So I do the whole border with just two graver shapes.....90 degree and a flat.  The intervals I do by eye.  Mine are not all that consistently spaced when I blow the engraving up on the screen.  But it looks OK at a distance.....I think... :o
 
On the frizzen, it seems to spark just fine, but I have never had any luck following the directions I have been given on how to re-harden a Chambers frizzen for example.....and I have tried several different methods....with torches, furnaces, charcoal packing, etc, etc.  None of the processes that require a quench in a light oil (Canola) ever worked.  What I do now is to paint the part, except for the frizzen face and toe, with an anti-scaling compound (from Brownells), let that dry, heat to a bright red with a Presto-Lite acetylene torch, dip the face and toe in Kasenit, keep it at a bright red temperature for a minute or so, and then quench in room temperature brine water.  I know it is not recommended, but it works and I haven't had a cracked frizzen.....yet.

Some general comments on the Kibler Colonial Rifle kit.....

First of all, let me qualify my comments by saying that I have built several rifles and pistols from scratch, including hand making my own locks, but do not have much experience with kits.  However, I have been asked to finish some kits that others had started and not completed.  While the quality and precision varied considerably, I can say unequivocally that none that I worked on were up to the standard of Jim's kit.  At the beginning of this thread, I mentioned that, excluding the little time it took to draw file the barrel, I had all the parts assembled in about 5 hours and the majority of that time was spent getting the brass parts from a cast surface finish to a near polish.  That step could have taken much less time if the brass did not need to be taken to that high a finish level.....that was just my preference.
 
I don't think I spent more than a few minutes cutting any wood and getting parts to drop into the precisely cut mortises.  This is the only kit I have ever personally worked on that I didn't have to spend time trying to re-orient and re-inlet parts to minimize the gaps left by over-cut inlets...or trying to patch gaps that just could not be made right by metal stretching, water soaking, etc.

As far as the architecture goes, I don't think there is anyone who will (or should   ;)) contest Jim's excellent eye for style and authenticity.  The kit is beautiful right out of the box.  Again, just from a personal preference standpoint, I thinned out the wrist about an 1/8" top to bottom and the same amount from side to side.  I then blended the new narrower wrist contour into the rest of the lines of the stock.  The only other wood I took off was to thin the forearm some from the front of the lock panel to the muzzle.  I think Jim left a tiny extra bit of wood there so the builder could decide to leave it or thin it as might be their preference.

Obviously from my posts, I decided to use the kit as a "canvas" for some engraving and carving which took the great bulk of the time I spent to finish the kit.  I did not take the barrel metal finish beyond draw filing, so that didn't take very long.  But because I wanted to engrave the lock, I did spend a fair amount of time polishing the lock parts to the level I like before engraving.  And I did polish all the brass to a high level before engraving and then knocking back the finish level some during the light antiquing.  But I will also say that the lock could easily have been left as it came from Jim and then browned or blued and been perfectly acceptable without the builder spending any great amount of additional time polishing.

The bottom line here is that if I had gathered parts for a nearly identical rifle, and purchased a good stock plank, then had the barrel inlet and ram rod hole drilled by David Rase (or one of the others who do that work), I would have spent considerably more money than the kit cost and I don't have to tell you how much more work it would have been to assemble the rifle.  Now I understand that, often, there just isn't a kit that represents the type of rifle you might want to build and you just do not have a choice but to build from scratch.  But if you are looking to build a Colonial type of early flintlock rifle, I don't think you can beat this kit from Jim.....and I am assuming here that the mountain rifle kit he offers falls into the same category.  And as a final comment, I think you can tell from this series of posts that if you want to "customize" one of these rifles, there is really no limit to what can be done.  What I did on this rifle certainly doesn't reflect everyone's taste in either the amount or style of carving and engraving (heck....I even don't like some of what I did here), but it does show that you can go from a simple, plain working rifle to one with "spoke wheels and a chrome trailer hitch".

Again, my compliments to Jim and Katherine.....I think I understand the level of commitment and the amount of difficult work it takes to put out a product as excellent as this rifle kit.  As we say in the Navy with signal flags, "Brave Zulu" Jim and Katherine !!!!


« Last Edit: March 18, 2022, 01:49:55 PM by davec2 »
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Offline davec2

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Re: Another Kibler Colonial..... Some final comments on Jim's kit.....
« Reply #156 on: August 10, 2020, 01:11:51 AM »
Oh....by the way.....I have five rifles and five pistols on the bench all started from the plank.  All have the barrels inletted and ram rod holes drilled.  A few have locks inletted.  After the speed and ease of building one of Jim's kits, I am really not looking forward to all the work yet to do on those other guns.  I think I need to put all but one in a closet out of site and just pick on them one at a time.... ;)
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780