Author Topic: A typical in line hunter/shooter!!  (Read 23741 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: A typical in line hunter/shooter!!
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2008, 04:09:09 PM »
Well, onto other subjects within the discussion:

I've argued with the "in" crowd on the point of ballistics and therein comes the first clue.  They are almost uniformly are found to be disciples of velocity, a dogma sold by marketing types from Manhattan for a great many decades.  In general they do not understand ballistic foundations or even know the difference between the three primary disciplines.  Discussion with them of Whitworths, slug guns, Perry, Lowe or Billinghurst is a fools errand. Forget about Polecat Porter too. 

No, they cannot be hooked by knowledge.  The only path I see is experience, that being the first time they actually sit down and shoot a flinter or caplock 3-5 times at paper or perhaps a tin can...then find out by demonstration that such arms are as easy to clean as their Knight and perhaps easier than their-cough-smokeless thing...or easier?  One cannot argue against dogma for it is the strongest faith of all. One must demonstrate.

What can they find in this process?  Perhaps that a longer sight radius makes the fine bead very precise, even in offhand shooting.  Or that the balance of traditional arms is superior for the field. Ease and simplicity of loading, reliability, even the oft times lighter weight.  My flinter weighs 7#4, a fair bit less than some of the inlines and it is far more amenable to carry and handle. Maybe with a little coaching they will find they are more capable than they once thought, and when that happens you have a convert.  Last year at deer camp I let 5 grown men of vast experience (in their minds) shoot at an 8" bull at 50 yards on their hind feet. None had ever fired a flinter.  They ALL hit the bull. One said he could not have done that with his .270, a few others agreed, reflecting on their ability, not his.  Well, maybe that too, but.....

Now there is one thing crosses my mind regarding a previous post and that would be the subject of rifling.  Rifling is not a new invention at all and dates back to the 15th century.  It had telling effect on the field of battle over 200 years ago.  Other odd factoids about rifling....

*Rifled weapons are still proscribe by law in many circumstances and locations.
*Rifling does not double the effective range of anything.
*The M1A2 is  smoothbore equipped. 
*There is a substantial difference in accuracy potential between a smoothbore and rifled gun, but when using round balls there is not a great deal of practical difference in effective range if one evaluates the matter on the basis of exterior ballistics.  Not that any of you would, but the "in" crowd might...
*If you load a left handed twist muzzle loader in the Southern Hemisphere and shoot it, the trajectory has half the drop as a right hand twist rifle. (I actually heard that once at the range. Yep, the speaker was explaining this to a friend as he loaded his.....inline.)
*Back in the '50s it was illegal to hunt big game in Florida with anything other than a shotgun.  Rifled shotguns had yet to be invented as I recall.  Such circumstances still exist in some areas of some states.

It's partly the gun....but mostly the jerk behind the trigger.

Well, that is all....again.

Offline longcruise

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Re: A typical in line hunter/shooter!!
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2008, 07:12:23 PM »
This thread is nearly torn!! :-X

My original intent was to show how the typical in line and user took care (misused) his rifle and how lousy he or it shot although all the fancy scopes, sand bags, shooting bench, bullets, large target close in was/were used. :)

Well, Roger, I for one think he posted a pretty good group for a smoothbore shooting conicals!!
Mike Lee


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Re: A typical in line hunter/shooter!!
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2008, 07:47:37 PM »
There is a very good, and simple reason why the inline shooters aren't out there on the range shooting.  It's called recoil.  Most of those rifles weigh about 6 lb. and they tend to shoot (because of the current hype) about 120 to 150 gr. equivalents of powder, a 400+ gr. conical or bullet or a 275  + gr. bullet in a sabot.  Even with a recoil pad on the stock, most inexperienced shooters are willing to call it quits by half a dozen shots.  Not only do most the of inlines slap you on the face but many, like Knight 85's, rap your thumb with the cocking piece - it's necessary to wear a glove - and bruise your knuckle from hitting the back of the trigger guard.  So after about 6 shots, the guys decide that muzzleloaders are generally unpleasant to shoot.  Combine that with the need to clean the rifle after shooting and a few industry sponsored a**h**** who are actually trying to get states to outlaw patched round balls as somehow inadequate, well you know the story.

The group of people we need to be cultivating aren't the adult inline shooters.  We will get a few of them to come over if we keep offering to let them shoot our rifles at the range and maybe invite them to a shoot and lend them a spare rifle which we take home and clean.  The group we need to cultivate are the kids.  Sponsor a black powder shooting day at the range for kids only.  Have lots of guys there to work with them, have black powder shotguns for them to shoot.  Have some of the reenactors around to do hawk and knife throwing.  Keep it safe but keep it simple.  Maybe let them shoot an overloaded inline after they've had fun shooting a flinter or nice perc. rifle.  That's how we'll get converts.