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Author Topic: Lock Tuning  (Read 18792 times)

Tony Clark

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2012, 06:11:16 AM »
Fixed the other problem hey? well what was it?

how did you remove the hammer from the tumbler when you took that lock apart? By turning out the hammer screw partially and then hitting on it?

If Allen Martin is building you a gun you might just let him do the lock work i bet it would save you all this trouble your running into....
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 06:21:50 AM by Tony Clark »
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Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2012, 07:03:52 AM »
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.  Retirement is looking better all the time.  If any of you guys ever have a problem with any lock you get from us why don't you just send it back to us with your concerns?  I can't make locks exactly to everyone's standard of what they think is the perfect lock (everyone has their own ideas) , but I can and do guarantee our locks  are perfectly functional.  If they don't function properly send them back, and I'll do whatever is necessary to make them functional, period.  I personally put a flint in every lock and check its function before they go out.  I'm not perfect, but I think I try harder than any of the other lock makers out there.
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Dave Faletti

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2012, 07:34:13 AM »
Jim.  I like your locks.  Haven't found a need to tinker with them.  I would be looking for another lock source if  I felt an assembled lock needed a bunch of extra work.  I hope you don't retire too soon.  Thanks for putting up with us.
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Offline Bill of the 45th

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2012, 07:34:28 AM »
Jim, now I know why your hair is so white, but at least you're not pulling it out.  After he sends it in, and gets it back, he'll be doing the head slap, and saying to himself "Why didn't I do that in the first place?"  Hang in there the snows coming, so you can enjoy yourself on the slopes.

Bill
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 07:48:14 AM »
Production or benchcrafted,ANY lock,no matter who is making it can develop a glitch.
It is after all,a man made device and no one ever made a perfect one. I take a lot of time on little details but that's the way I do things and I do charge more for my locks than others do and always have. The pre-revolutionary stle lock is the simplest of basic mechanisms and should not be hard to tune if that is needed.
Jim Chambers does a good job and I occasionally buy the externals for his late Ketland and make an English style mechanism for it. It's a great lock to work with. One problem I used to encounter was people wanting to make a Hawken caplock and buying a lock that was too small for the breech they had. I told them to carefully pre-plan and then buy proper parts from whoever. My Hawken locks plates were/are precise copies of original riles I had access to in the 1960's and I have profile plates for a number of them including the Hoffman&Campbell rifle in Baird;s book.
Enjoy the winter we have a tropical 22 degrees here now and ice all over as one guy riding a motorcycle just found out. ICE and a MOTORCYCLE? Brilliant move.
By the way,Jim,retirement is as the great newsman Paul Harvey once said,"Practicing up to be dead"so hang in there.

Bob Roller
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eddillon

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2012, 09:49:10 AM »
Hang in there, Jim.  You make a great product.  My only problem was using the wrong size flint.  Can't point a finger at you for that!  I have built three of your kits and plan on a lot more.  Illegitimus non carborundum.
regards,
Ed
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 04:14:41 AM by eddillon »
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Offline duca

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2012, 03:03:48 PM »
I under stand that things happen. I'm not blaming Jim for this. His reputation in the muzzleloading field is Awesome. Looking at it now I should have let Allen deal with it. That is what he does. As stated before I've been shooting Flintlocks for 30 years and have about 12 Gun now. I know how the Flintlock works. I have been taking apart Lock for about that long to. I have helped many people out on the Range and tuned many Locks before this one. I know Mr. Cambers will take care of it for me. Thanks to everyone for there help.
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2012, 03:10:46 PM »
IF the hammer screw was partly backed out on any lock,the risk of smacking it with a hammer can possibly spring the bridle sideways and create a change in the dimension of the small tumbler shaft hole and create a bind. IF it takes a sharp rap to unseat the hammer from the tumbler,at least remove the mechanism from the lock so you can send the tumbler aross the room with the fly to be lost forever.
As I said earlier,these early style locks are simple things with one major moving part,the tumbler.

Bob Roller
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Doc Or

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2012, 04:06:07 PM »
Well I would have to say I'm sorry to Jim.
Just a little surprised.
I wanted the best lock so I went with Jim.

 :-X

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Offline Don Getz

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2012, 05:43:29 PM »
Jim.............now you can see why I enjoy retirement so much.   I am driving a new Chevy, and when it's not working right
I take it back to the dealer, especially when I don't know how to fix it.   If this gentleman has been shooting for 30 years,
he sure doesn't exhibit that much experience.   Most likely has one years experience, 30 times.   I have used so many
siler's in my lifetime and have never encountered the problems that he seems to have.   I hope he returns it to you,
nothing on it that can't be fixed....good luck......................Don
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2012, 05:52:33 PM »
Everybody recognizes that nobody in the ML parts business is getting wealthy.  It's a calling, a labor of love.  We now have such a variety of high end parts, it's stunning.

But glitches will happen and folks want to know what to do, and so they post here.  Our members want to be helpful so offer suggestions.  Gentlemen, the moderators struggle all the time with whether or not we should allow this sort of discussion.  On one hand, we want folks to get good information.  On the other, sometimes, without intending to do so, a maker's product and etc are called into question.  

Please contact the supplier or manufacturer FIRST when you have a problem with a part.  That is what you would want your customers to do in regards to your product or service.  I know that no ill intent is present here.  But we'd all rather have the supplier fixing the problem with the customer as opposed to having to post here AND fix the problem.  Undoubtedly, many times the person who posts thinks they are doing the maker a favor by sorting it out w/o taking up the maker's time.  But it often does not work out that way.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2012, 06:47:43 PM »
Quote from: Jim Chambers on January 03, 2012, 07:03:52 AM
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.  Retirement is looking better all the time.  If any of you guys ever have a problem with any lock you get from us why don't you just send it back to us with your concerns?  I can't make locks exactly to everyone's standard of what they think is the perfect lock (everyone has their own ideas) , but I can and do guarantee our locks  are perfectly functional.  If they don't function properly send them back, and I'll do whatever is necessary to make them functional, period.  I personally put a flint in every lock and check its function before they go out.  I'm not perfect, but I think I try harder than any of the other lock makers out there.

I understand the frustration. But it kinda comes with the territory I guess. I used to run a motel and trust me this is far worse. The average person driving down the road is bad enough. The below average types ::)

Back when I worked for a gun factory I once spent about 30 minutes on the phone explaining to a customer that shooting IMR 3031 in a 50 3 1/4" case was a really bad idea and in BP duplication charges.
He was a lot more knowledgeable than I apparently, or thought so. He arrives at a load using a "Powley computer" for BP velocity.  He subsequently did the most thorough job of destroying a Sharps action and about 4" of barrel that I have ever seen.  He called up and said he had done as I told him not to and it did what I said it would.
He was shooting from the bench and was uninjured since he had no body parts in front of the trigger. Had he shot it offhand he likely would have lost his left hand.

So far as having "mechanical" trouble with stuff?
I have had things I sent put that I KNEW were right. One was a trigger/hammer repair on a SA Colt.
The owner was a widely known guitar player, he had far better finger control than I, naturally, and managed to break the sear immediately. Full cock was maybe a couple of thousandths too low. So I fixed it again so he could not do this. Yeah it was my mistake, making the notch slightly, probably a couple of thou.  below the radius, but it worked perfect for me....
Its like Bob Roller stated.  Some things will work perfectly for the maker and then transmorgrify in shipment it seems.
Chambers locks invariably work well right out of the box and generally speaking "fixing them" is likely to gum up the works. But I just LOVE to tinker with stuff. But if I screw it up I know where the blame lies ;D

Dan
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Offline Long John

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2012, 07:22:01 PM »
I LOVE the Chambers locks!  I don't think there is a better production lock out there.  I have never had one that didn't "work" right out of the box.  However, I have found that some times I can refine the working a little more to my personal objectives.  Tuning up a Chambers lock to met those objectives is easy and very predictable.

I have two guns on the bench, a French pistol and a Lancaster rifle.  Both have Chambers locks.  I have a new John Getz long 45 caliber barrel and fine hard maple, drop-dead gorgeous blank waiting for me; and that rifle will have a Chambers lock.

And that is my opinion on the matter.

JMC
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Offline duca

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2012, 01:35:16 AM »
Quote from: Bob Roller on January 03, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
IF the hammer screw was partly backed out on any lock,the risk of smacking it with a hammer can possibly spring the bridle sideways and create a change in the dimension of the small tumbler shaft hole and create a bind. IF it takes a sharp rap to unseat the hammer from the tumbler,at least remove the mechanism from the lock so you can send the tumbler aross the room with the fly to be lost forever.
As I said earlier,these early style locks are simple things with one major moving part,the tumbler.

Bob Roller
Bob, Hope you don't do that with your locks. Because I don't do it to mine! I use a punch that is smaller then the hole diameter. Besides who said anything about that? Crazy...
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Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2012, 04:15:38 AM »
Don,
I'm closing on a home on Lake Keowee in upstate SC on March 1,  having a covered dock installed for my bass boat, and there's a great room in the basement that looks out over the lake that is just big enough for a shop to build guns.  I'm not saying exactly when retirement will start, but I'm darn sure getting ready.
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Hangfire

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2012, 04:53:40 AM »
Oh my, building flintlocks and bass fishing, don't get much better then that!
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FRJ

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2012, 03:31:02 AM »
Sounds to me like Mr Chambers is  doing the absolute best he can. I have the same problem he has. I'm human!!!!!!!It is a hassel to send stuff  back and forth but that's just life and even Bugattis have problems. As far as Mr Chambers having a new employee, we all had to start somewhere and that also is a fact of life. I hope he doesn't retire too soon as I'm going to need one of his locks soon as I'm done building the 2 Hawkens I'm working on now. Lets just relax and let an honorable man take care of a small problem.FRJ
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Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2012, 06:15:31 AM »
I may be the lone guy to think this way, but- why is it that it is accepted practice in this activity for people to fiddle with, adjust, put a file to, grinder etc a lock, and then feel entitled to send it back to the manufacturer to " fix " it  ?  Now, I fool around with locks too, cause I want to learn , but I figure that I do it on my own dime.  I buy the lock, and it works. The supplier has done  their job. You buy a reliable Chevy , and want to turn it into a speedster, who would expect to have GM responsible for the " fine tuning" ?
Sorry, but in my shop,; you fool with it, you get billed shop hours for me to fix it.....plus parts .
I think Jim's too nice of a guy. If it has a problem, send it back. He'll fix it. Touch it, and the problem is yours. And that is just good business.






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Offline duca

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2012, 02:11:46 PM »
Hi all; Figured out what was wrong with the lock. Hammer face was a bit bowel shaped. {con-caved}. The screw was hitting the bottom of the hammer first witch was moving the top of the hammer away from the plate. Filed the hammer a bit and all is Well..  :D
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2012, 03:21:03 PM »
duca, 
If Allen's building you a rifle,  I can almost guarantee he's going to rework that lock anyway.
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Dane

Offline duca

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2012, 04:28:39 PM »
 I know but just wanted to get it right. I'm all into it. Thanks to everyone for all there opinions. Boy and there was alot! Lol... ::)
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Dogshirt

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2012, 06:14:38 PM »
Quote from: duca on January 05, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
I know but just wanted to get it right. I'm all into it. Thanks to everyone for all there opinions. Boy and there was alot! Lol... ::)


Much like noses, everybody has one! ;D
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Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2012, 08:25:39 PM »
Quote from: duca on January 05, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
I know but just wanted to get it right. I'm all into it. Thanks to everyone for all there opinions. Boy and there was alot! Lol... ::)

Duca, I used to live in Hightstown until 1998 nice area. Belonged to CRRC. on 571 and Central Jersey Gun Club in Jackson. We might have "rubbed shoulders" shooting. I must say this - sometimes it's best not to open yourself up to criticism - just send the part back to it's manufacturer. Good luck with your project  ;)
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Offline duca

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2012, 11:37:03 PM »
Quote from: P.W.Berkuta on January 05, 2012, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: duca on January 05, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
I know but just wanted to get it right. I'm all into it. Thanks to everyone for all there opinions. Boy and there was alot! Lol... ::)

Duca, I used to live in Hightstown until 1998 nice area. Belonged to CRRC. on 571 and Central Jersey Gun Club in Jackson. We might have "rubbed shoulders" shooting. I must say this - sometimes it's best not to open yourself up to criticism - just send the part back to it's manufacturer. Good luck with your project  ;)
I here ya. LOL I belong to CRRC and also shoot at Central Jersey! Central Jersey is a Beautiful Range!
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Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Lock Tuning
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2012, 12:49:06 AM »
Quote from: duca on January 05, 2012, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: P.W.Berkuta on January 05, 2012, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: duca on January 05, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
I know but just wanted to get it right. I'm all into it. Thanks to everyone for all there opinions. Boy and there was alot! Lol... ::)

Duca, I used to live in Hightstown until 1998 nice area. Belonged to CRRC. on 571 and Central Jersey Gun Club in Jackson. We might have "rubbed shoulders" shooting. I must say this - sometimes it's best not to open yourself up to criticism - just send the part back to it's manufacturer. Good luck with your project  ;)
I here ya. LOL I belong to CRRC and also shoot at Central Jersey! Central Jersey is a Beautiful Range!
Say hello to Carrol Katona and the rest of the gang for me ;)
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