Hunting Game Calibers

[Eric Smith]

What is the minimum caliber load to use for the following, whitetail deer, elk, black bear, and American bison?

[frontier gander]

elk,bear, bison..   54cal or bigger.

[The other DWS]

Are there legal requirements in your hunting area.  Some states regulate such tthings

[Eric Smith]

I would like to think I go where the game is.

[B.Habermehl]

.58 This is my primary deer hunting rifle's caliber. Deer just think it's just plain poison. I'm certain it will do fine for the bigger critters to if you load heavy enough to take advantage of the caliber. 100 or a bit more grains of ffg. With a decent barrel length.. BJH

[Dphariss]

50 is perfect for deer and maybe black bear.
54 is better for larger stuff but I feel its marginal for elk though it works really well most of the time.
If I felt I needed something bigger than a 54 I would jump to a 62-69 English sporting rifle in flint or percussion.
I will likely hunt blackbear this spring with a 50 or 54 caliber. I have a 16 bore rifle (.662 ball) but its hard on my neck.
Shot placement is the key to all of it. When I guided hunters a man with a 270 he could shoot well was far more deadly than someone with 340 Weatherby that scared him to death to shoot.

Dan

[Daryl]

I purposely traded into a pair of .58's when it was touching if I'd get my .69 back. Now, I have all 3 - and I'm perfectly suited for all game up to buffalo with any of them - BUT- were I to hunt buffalo/bison, I'd use the .69 without hesitation. The .58 Double rifle, my second best hunting rifle, is restricted to a mere 110gr. 2F for regulation reasons and due to that, I'd not go after buffalo with it.  If it was capable of handing 140gr., it would be a toss-up between that one and the 14 bore rifle as all-round hunting rifle in NA.  I'd certainly choose the .14 bore(.69) for grizzlies, even though it holds just one shot.

[hanshi]

I'm comfortable with the .50 for everything except buffalo and assorted large critters.  Never killed an elk but I'd still trust a .50 or my .54.  Deer & black bear are the biggest things I get to hunt so a .50 serves well.

[Daryl]

So - question was for opinons on minimums:

deer - .45 minimum for small whitetails, mule deer, all black tails or all sitka deer.

large deer over 200 pounds .50 cal. minimum

bear - .50 mimimum.

moose/elk - .54 mimimum. 

buffalo - .58 minimum.

[hanshi]

Sounds reasonable, Daryl, and .45 just happens to be the minimum for deer in Va.

[Harnic]

When I hunted the only caliber I tried was 54, on moose & deer.  It worked well for both.  Now I have a 58 cal & would prefer it over the 54.  It shoots as flat as the 54 did with 140 grs 3f, recoil on my 9.2 pound rifle is no issue.  I seriously doubt any critter I ever hunted would take a second shot if the first was reasonably well placed.

[smylee grouch]

58 is great and the only thing better is bigger for all around use in my humble opinion after over 40 years of muzzleloading.   Smylee

[Harnic]

Has excellent trajectory plus "Whompability"
 

I hafta agree there Rb! 

[doulos]

The .58 is hardly the slowpoke that some publications report. The one and only time I chronographed a .58 I consistently got velocities in the range of 1680 -1700 or better with 100 grains Swiss FFG out of a 34 inch Colerain.  With 110 goex FFG I achieved 1592 -1610 consistently.  Flat enough for 100 yard shooting.

[Mike R]

Are there legal requirements in your hunting area.  Some states regulate such tthings

Of the game listed we only have [wild] deer and black bear in Louisiana and the state minumum caliber is .44 for big game.  As I have mentioned previously, the state maximum for small game is .36; thus leaving the popular .40 out in the cold for hunting.   My largest current flintlocks are .54s and I would not hesitate to use them on bear or elk [I do have a .58 '1841' musket and once had a .58 Hawken that with 100-110 gr ffg would do for any big game in the lower 48]. 

Most of my buddies who hunt deer with MLers use a .50 with great success on deer.

[hanshi]

I'm considering possibly building (can't afford to have one built) a jeager /yeager from a kit when I can swing it.  It will have a swamped 31" barrel.  I have no idea what kind of velocity loss that means so have thought a .54 would be best.  But if velocity doesn't suffer too much a .58 sounds better.  What kind of vel loss are we looking at, here?

[Harnic]

if velocity doesn't suffer too much a .58 sounds better.  What kind of vel loss are we looking at, here?

I am planning a trip to the club this afternoon Hanshi.  I'll take my chrony & check for you.  I built a fullstock flint Hawken with a 36"x1" Rice 58 barrel for reference.  I prefer 3f GOEX in it because 2f causes a slight lag on firing in my rifle.   More later...

[Harnic]

Ok Hanshi, I finally got away from the "honey do" list for an afternoon!  I fired 2 loads, my target load of 75 grs GOEX 3f  & a more substantial 140 gr load, also 3f GOEX.  The results were averaged over 5 shots of each.  75 grs gave an average velocity of 1,319 fps, with an extreme velocity spread of 31 fps.  The 140 gr load gave an average velocity of 1,654 fps with an extreme velocity spread of 14 fps.  That differs substantially from the velocities I remember from my last 54 cal about 25 years ago, by at least 300 fps.  The trajectory seems un-affected though, I guess the greater mass with a 58 cal prb permits a similar trajectory at lower velocities.  When I use the same sight picture at 50 & 100 yards, the ball shoots about 4.5-5" lower at 100 yards with the 75gr load.  The difference would be less at 140 grains.  I hope that answers your question.

[doulos]

Im actually surprised at your 140 FFFg result. I thought it would be much higher

[Daryl]

I find your chronographed velocities very interesting, Harry.  My 1861 Enfield Musketoon delivered 1,308fps with 75gr. 2F GOEX with only 12fps variation, shot to shot. I was very impressed, considering it's progressive rifing depth. I would have thought it would deliver poor resutls due to blowby, but the reverse seems to have happened.  It's barrel is only 24" long.  The 1,319 with 75gr. 3F GOEX form your longer barrel is not much improvememt.

I've just cast up some .562's for it, so should do some more testing, when it warms up a bit more.  It's a fun little gun to shoot and I won a trail walk with the Musketoon at Hefley a couple years back when feeling rather confident, one morning. I'll also try a 140gr. charge, just for the 'pain' of it for comparrison. The gun only weighs around 6 1/2 pounds.

[hanshi]

Thanks for sharing the results, Harnic.  I would not hesitate hunting deer with the 75 grain load; that massive ball won't need much.  I would not venture up past 100 grains especially in a 31" barrel....well I guess I would go up some as I've killed deer with 110 grains 3F in my .54 Mississippi rifle (1735 fps).  I hate to have to make decisions like these  .

[Vomitus]

That's amazing,almost double the charge for only three hundred more feet per second!

[Daryl]

Yeah - seem to me, 3F is not efficient in the larger bores. It will be interesting to see what the short little rifle gives.

[Harnic]

I too was surprised by the 140 gr load performance.  I was expecting a velocity more in the 18-1900 fps range, but 5 shots with such a low spread is pretty definitive.  You're welcome Hanshi, I too was interested to find the difference between 54 & 58 cal, I wish I had writen the velocities down for my old 54, it was 25 years ago, but I'm sure I'm close.  As you suggest, the 75 grain load has more than enough oomph, probably even on game larger than deer.

[Daryl]

Here's my numbers from around 1988, using the GOEX available then. All loads, 2F. .58 hawken 34" bl.
.575gr. round ball 285gr.
:95gr. --spit patch - 1,424fps spread 48fps.
:140gr. -spit patch - 1,683fps 10fps spread -- Bear Grease patch - 1,736fps 36fps spread
:160gr. -spit patch - 1,810fps 8fps spread-----Bear Grease patch - 1,857fps 74fps spread
:185gr. -spit patch - not chronographed------- Bear Grease patch - 1,951fps 42fps spread
:200gr. -spit patch - 1850fps  spread not listed  note similarity to 160gr. spit and G Brease patch.

I should note here, all shooting was done without wiping. Spit patch always gave better accuracy than any grease or oil. The barrel started shooting well at 140gr. 2F.  95gr. would barely stay on a pie plate at 100yards. With 140gr. I could stay on that pale at 200 yards easily and at 100yrds, shoot into 2" or better.

Slug: 675gr. RNHB - modified Lyman # 57730 mould.
:150gr. 2F - 1,250fps
:160gr. 2F - 1,325fps
Yeah - they kicked with the hawken butt plate. I was young, dumb, ect, etc.