The Moll-Newhard-Kuntz Triangle of Old Northampton County Gunmaking

[spgordon]

According to the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, "Associators were volunteers who comprised the Military Association, a civilian reserve designed to repel any invasion of Pennsylvania until the collapse of the Association in the winter of 1776-1777. The Pennsylvania Militia was organized under an Act of the Assembly of March 17, 1777 that required compulsory enrollment by constables of all able-bodied white males between the ages of 18 and 53 to repel invaders."

I do see that phrasing a few times on the PHMC website, but I wish I knew what they meant by this "collapse." I suppose they mean that, when push came to shove, men didn't serve as they had promised or "volunteered"? I probably need to learn a lot more about this, but these associations were, in my understanding, county-based (rather than authorized at the state level). So the Lancaster County Committee of Observation divided the County up into companies and battalions in May 1775 and assessed fines on those who did not serve, known as non-associators. I don't think this county-based system ever "collapsed," though again it may have functioned better in some counties than others. Only after Pennsylvania established its new state government under its new constitution of 1776 did it pass the state-authorized Militia Law of March 1777.

But my real interest in asking my question was about the Mennonites. Did they change their attitude toward service in the militia as the war dragged on? Or were they just pressured into serving by exorbitant fines and threats of neighbors (which pretty much characterizes what happened to the Moravian communities beyond Bethlehem).

Scott
 

[mkeen]

Where did this thread start? Anyway, it is extremely difficult to get any exact data on Mennonite attitudes. First, it is almost impossible to be sure any one individual is Mennonite at a specific time. The Mennonites did not keep records like the Moravians or other church groups. If an adult had not been baptized they would not be a member of the church and would not come under church rules. In a previous post I said it appears Mennonites were members of the militia. Am I positive, they were members to any extent? No. It would take a great deal of time to match militia lists with actual individuals. Too many surnames are the same and the militia lists I am familiar with do not give ages. In short, I don't know with any certainty. They might have taken the view that showing up for a meeting and marching around without a gun was not actually engaging in warfare.

Martin

[Acer Saccharum]

Since this thread went quiet, I 'unstickied' it. Be sure to print it out for your personal reference, or copy the topic header for easier searching:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21620.0

[Eric Kettenburg]

D**n it!  I was just taking a breather!  I've got more to come pertaining to NH Co., but I'll probably lose track of the thread!

 

[Stophel]

Many men who showed up for militia duty without a gun may have had a gun in their household that they left home with their brother/son/wife for protection.

To draw a parallel, I have seen documentation in the past that showed when French settlers in
Canada were called up for militia duty, many of the "purposely" left their guns at home because they knew they would be issued one by the militia, at no expense to them; and upon their release from duty they kept the guns in case of future call-ups.

It is entirely possible that the same mindset existed among these Germans.  Also, I wonder how many of them were brethren who believed in pacifism as part of their religious beliefs.

I have thought of this as well.  During the Revolution we constantly see cries of "not enough arms, not enough arms"....  I have always wondered if the people simply left their guns at home, either for the wife and family to use, or because "I'm not gettin' my gun all beat up... they can provide me with one".



A huge percentage of German immigrants were "Redemptioners":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemptioner

On top of this, many would start their journey at some port on the southern end of the Rhine river, with all thier belongings (including, perhaps, their guns), but, the ship owners and the port operators and every local authority they passed through on their way to Holland found it quite a lucrative business to charge passage fees.  Some were lucky to leave Rotterdam with the clothes on their backs.

So, it might have taken a while for a new immigrant to be able to afford a gun.  But, I bet as soon as he could get one, he would get one!   

[Acer Saccharum]

I'll sticky it again...no problem. I didn't want the top of the window taken up by stickies that aren't active.


Type away, my friends.

[Stophel]

German farmers were generally considered much more efficient and productive than their English neighbors, so this might explain how they could literally "grow" their wealth at a fairly rapid pace.

[Bob Smalser]

All this is useful, thankyou.  But it still doesn’t address the structural problem of weapons ownership that Aaron Fogelman mentions as requiring additional research.

The population explosion on the Pennsylvania frontier immediately prior to the French and Indian War was massive, and far surpassed the colony’s ability to either produce or even import firearms, setting aside the issue of first-generation homesteaders’ ability to pay for them or the attendant shortages in powder and lead, also largely imported items at that time.

Between 1740 and 1754, 55,672 German immigrants landed in Philadelphia along with another 10,418 or so Ulster Scots, the Ulstermen concentrated between 1740-41 and 1754.  Probably very few of the Ulstermen brought weapons with them, and for certain almost none of the Germans did.  While redemptioners became more common at the tail end of these immigrations, in Pennsylvania these servitude contracts were only for three years or less, with the redemptioner usually heading for the frontier afterwards. 

That’s over 66,000 immigrants arriving in the short span of fifteen years in the largest port on the continent, yet a port having a population and attendant infrastructure and manufacturing of less than 20,000 inhabitants.   And those immigrants migrating largely to the dangerous frontier long before weapons production of any scale began in the colonies in the early 1760’s.  Even at one weapon per three people, that’s a requirement for firearms in quantities not seen until almost 20 years later during the Revolution.

Hence it is no surprise that after the Indian raids of 1763, frontier communities like Northampton Town found themselves significantly short of weapons for defense.

[JTR]

66,000 people in 15 years is about 4400 people per year. Say 5 people per family, that's about 880 family's a year.
 
I wouldn't think a thriving port comunity would have much difficulty in supplying 600 to 800 guns per year to these families...

John

[spgordon]

Eric K. provided plenty of evidence that average German immigrant farmers possessed weapons. No evidence exists whatsoever that they had any trouble obtaining arms. Seems like it is time for the theory to adjust to the facts rather than vice versa. But you seem far more interested in dispensing information than modifying your account due to information offered here. It's too bad, for instance, that you don't credit the posters on ALR with some of the information that they provided you & that you used in your recent Muzzle Blasts article.

The really puzzling thing, Bob, about your stubborn adherence to a contention that is refuted by all contemporary evidence is that the claim--that German farming families didn't have any arms, or many arms (I can't keep track of your changing position)--isn't necessary to your argument about the Molls & Newhardts whatsoever.

I just read the Muzzle Blasts piece, which (to my mind) is really excellent. You make a very persuasive case that Moll would have relocated to Allentown in response to what must have been perceived as an escalating Indian war. There's no doubt that arms were scarce and urgently needed--but this obviously isn't because nobody had any before 1763! So why do you need to go down the path into fantasy-land about the lack of gun ownership among Northampton County German farmers, which is so clearly inaccurate, when your narrative about the Whitehall Massacre and the Molls, etc., doesn't depend on this whatsoever?

[Bob Smalser]

I wouldn't think a thriving port comunity would have much difficulty in supplying 600 to 800 guns per year to these families...

Then where are they? 

If they were available in those kinds of quantities, then why are Revolutionary War weeapons relatively common and weapons from only 20 years earlier so scarce people aren't even sure what they looked like?

[spgordon]

Then where are they?  

Probably the same place the thousands of arms sent over from Britain in the mid-1750s are. In spring 1756, "10,000 stands of Arms"--all "Land Service Muskets of the King's Pattern with Brass Furniture"--were sent over to Boston for the use of William Shirley. In 1758, William Pitt ordered that "12,000...Muskets" be sent to New York. (This information from Jim Mullins's Of Sorts for Provincials: American Weapons of the French and Indian War [2008].)

The fact that few of these arms survived until today says little--nothing, really--about their presence and their use in colonial America.

The issue of imported arms makes it clear, too--as others on this thread have said, several times--that it is simply a mistake to suggest that, for Northampton County German farmers (or anybody else) to obtain arms, they would have had to purchase a new rifle. So it makes no sense to argue that, because a new rifle cost a certain amount, a certain type of farmer could not afford to possess a weapon at all.

[Bob Smalser]

The fact that few of these arms survived until today says little--nothing, really--about their presence and their use in colonial America.

Hardly.

[spgordon]

Well where are the 22,000 muskets sent over in 1756 and 1758? Your logic would seem to compel you to say that, if we cannot account for them, they must not have existed. But what about those primary documents?

Things get consumed and replaced. Especially when they are considered utilitarian objects. And even when it's not wartime. Why would we expect that these weapons would have survived?

[Eric Kettenburg]

The population explosion on the Pennsylvania frontier immediately prior to the French and Indian War was massive, and far surpassed the colony’s ability to either produce or even import firearms,

Produce?  Probable, albeit not a proven fact.  Import?  No problem at all there, as our old friend the PA Gazette will attest (and this is just for Philadelphia alone):

July 30, 1741
The Pennsylvania Gazette
PETER TURNER intending for London, desires all Persons indebted to him, to settle and ballance their Accounts...  To be Sold by said Turner, at the House late Mr. William Preston's, in Front Street...  Rifle barrel Guns, Bucaneers, with several sorts of fowling Pieces..

November 1, 1744
JUST imported from London, in the Argyle, John Seymour, Master & the Williams, Henry Harrison, a Variety of Goods, to be sold by Hamilton, Wallace and Co. at the House where Widow Fishbourn formerly liv'd, the Store fronting Fishbourn's Wharff...  trading guns, fowling pieces, ship muskets, pistols, cutlasses, and broad swords, cartouch boxes, red leather belts and French flints...


November 1, 1744
The Pennsylvania Gazette
JUST imported from London, in the Brigantine Argyle, John Seymour, Commander, and to be sold by Huston and Campbell, at their Store, in Front street, opposite to Samuel Hasel, Esq; for Ready Money or short Credit...  gun powder, privateering muskets, trading Guns, musket balls, lead, and small shot...

January 22, 1745
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported in the Mary and Carolina, from London, and to be sold by Ebenezer Currie, at his Store, betwixt Grey's and Norris' Alley, in Front Street...  Gunpowder, Ships Muskets, Cutlasses and Pole Axes...

September 26, 1745
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported from London, in the Agnes and Betty, Capt. Brame and the Mercury, Capt. Hargrave, and to be sold cheap for ready Money or short Credit by Peter Turner, in Front Street...  muskets for privateering, neat fowling pieces...

November 7, 1745
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just Imported by Peter Turner, in the Ship Carolina Galley, Capt. Mesnard from London and to be sold reasonably for ready Money or short Credit...  ship muskets, neat light fowling pieces...

October 16, 1746
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported in the Anne Galley, Capt. Houston, from London, and to be sold by Neats and Smith, at their store, opposite to the sign of the Bible, in Front street, for ready money... trading guns, ship muskets, and neat fowling pieces...

March 8, 1748
The Pennsylvania Gazette
A Parcel of good Muskets, all well fitted with Bayonets, Belts and Cartouch Boxes, and Buff Slings to cast over the Shoulder, very useful to such as have Occasion to ride with their Arms; To be sold by B. FRANKLIN.

October 6, 1748
This is to give notice, that on Wednesday, the 12th instant, will be put up to publick vendue, under the court house, an assortment of European and East India goods, viz...  muskets, trading guns, and fowling pieces...

July 2, 1752
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported in the Sampson, and other ships, and to be sold cheap, by ROBERT and AMOS STRETTELL, At their store, in Front street... ship muskets and long buccaneers...

June 3, 1756
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported in the Philadelphia, Captain Forsyth, from London, and other vessels from London and Bristol, and to be sold cheap, for cash or short credit, by RHEA and WIKOFF, At their store, the fifth door below Black horse alley, in Front street, between Market and Chestnut streets, Best London muskets, London proof...

March 5, 1761
The Pennsylvania Gazette
FRANCIS and RELFE, In Front street, the Corner of Chestnut street, HAVE renewed their large assortment of dry goods of every kind, by the Boreas Frigate, just arrived from London; and who have likewise to sell...  rifle gun barrels, the best sort of gunpowder...

June 4, 1761
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported in the last Ships from London, &c. and to be sold by FRANCIS and RELFE, At their Store in Front street, the Corner of Chestnut street, the following Goods...  rifle gun barrels and locks, gunpowder, oil flints...

April 14, 1763
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Just imported from London, by the last Vessels, and to be sold cheap, for Cash or short Credit, by WILLS and JACKSON, At their Store in Water street, between Market and Arch streets...  brass mounting for guns finished, plain gun locks and bridled ditto, pocket pistols of different sorts, powder horns...

September 6, 1764
The Pennsylvania Gazette
Imported from Liverpool, and to be sold for prime Cost, at ROBERT TOWERS, Between the Presbyterian Meeting and Strawberry Alley, in Market street...  rifle double barrel and smooth bore guns, pistols, flints, bullet and shot molds, with a variety of other things...

(This is just the years prior and during the F/I War.)

[Eric Kettenburg]

...Revolutionary War weeapons relatively common...

(My turn!)  Hardly.

More so than F/I era, comparatively?  Absolutely, but then, the F/I era pieces had a minimum of 20 additional years of [edit: EXTREMELY] hard usage upon them and there were of course less of them (less does not mean non-existent, nor scarce, simply less...) then the enormous importations of arms during the late 1770s as well as the enormous efforts during the 1770s to literally force anyone with gunsmithing ability to work for the common cause.  

I certainly would not term Revolutionary War-era weapons as "common," however.

[spgordon]

All this is useful, thankyou.  But it still doesn’t address the structural problem of weapons ownership that Aaron Fogelman mentions as requiring additional research.

Here's what you noted that Aaron wrote you: "I have never looked much into 18th-century gun making but always wanted to, as there are a number of important topics involved.  My sense is that a lot of people did not own guns, as there simply were not enough gun makers or imports to keep up with the exploding population."

I would wager that if you told Aaron the actual facts of the situation--including the easy availability of "new" imported guns as well as the many imported guns in the colonies due to the French & Indian War, and the many reports of German farmers owning guns--he wouldn't wonder much longer about whether German immigrant farmers in Northampton or any other PA county could obtain guns if they wanted to. The "problem" only arises when one assumes--incorrectly--that the primary way to obtain a weapon was to purchase an expensive rifle from a local maker.

That is: his puzzlement may stem from the way you presented the issue to him.

[spgordon]

Caspar Wistar imported rifles in the 1740s and 1750s from Germany--asking that they be made in particular for the American market ("people [here] prefer rifles with barrels that are three feet and three to four inches long" he wrote in 1737). He tried to avoid British duties on these rifles by asking his German supplier to pack the rifles in immigrants' trunks.

The market for these rifles: new German immigrants. In 1743, he told his German supplier that "all of the newlanders who came through" his area wanted to purchase the guns that Wistar had obtained from a particular gunsmith in Rothenberg.

All this information easily available in Rosalind Beiler's Immigrant and Entrepreneur: The Atlantic World of Caspar Wistar, 1650-1750 (Penn State Press, 2008).

***

I guess Wistar didn't realize that these new German immigrants wouldn't have been able to obtain these rifles he was selling to them.

[rich pierce]

As you know the Marshall rifle barrel is stamped or engraved IAD Rothenberg. This may further support the Marshall rifle is a re stock of a German rifle

[Eric Kettenburg]

Wowee that is a fantastic bit of information Scott.  I need to grab a copy of that as I would love to see the origin of his references.

[spgordon]

It's a good book--but there's not much more about Wistar's rifle importing activities. There are, if I remember correctly, perhaps a dozen or so letters between Wistar and Holzer, his German supplier: these letters are in German and Beiler translates them for her study. She gives the date for each letter, though, so it should be easy to find the German originals among the Wistar Family Papers at Historical Society of Pennsylvania.

In 1736, Wistar told Holzer that he sold 7 firearms for £20 PA currency.

Beiler states just once, I think, that Wistar mentioned that "the gunsmith from Rothenberg" was one of his major suppliers--but in the original letter, for all we know, Wistar may have mentioned the gunsmith's name ...

[Acer Saccharum]

Caspar Wistar imported rifles in the 1740s and 1750s from Germany--asking that they be made in particular for the American market

Any references to American stock wood being shipped to Europe?

[spgordon]

Not that I recall. I think Wistar only imported: he didn't export, so the book (which is focused on his activities) doesn't discuss American wood being shipped to Europe.

Coincidentally, though, Wistar's father (I think) was a forester in Germany and so there is considerable discussion about wood as a commodity in Germany itself...

[Acer Saccharum]

I have "America's Wooden Age" by Hindle. Seven articles on the development of wood as a commodity in the Colonies. From the seventeenth cent thru the nineteenth. Wood as a material, as an industry, and a major part of the American economy.

[Acer Saccharum]

Immigrant and Entrepreneur: The Atlantic World of Caspar Wistar, 1650-1750 is on Google books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0J7QwewEiFcC&q=

It is much preferable to have a hard copy, but you can wordsearch the google copy. pretty cool. The Google book doesn't have all the pages available.