Author Topic: english flints -vs-misouri flints  (Read 16950 times)

lew wetzel

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english flints -vs-misouri flints
« on: July 07, 2008, 03:31:55 AM »
went out and shot the transitional rifle i made for my stepdad.started out with the misouri flints and had quite a few misfires,so i switched over to the english flints and had no misfires.and they left a nice consistant scrape on the frizzen.my stepdad loved it.ignition was fast and we shot 50gr. for a while and then i put 100gr. deer load because he wanted to feel how much kick it would have for hunting,he smiled all day.my mom liked the way it belched fire .we also shot his parker dbl.barrel shotgun,boy what a thumper that thing is.
  this is his first flintlock and he loves it.i got him a nice powder horn and im making him a pouch for his birthday and maybe i should get him a coonskin cap also,i brought the rifle home with me to do some final little things to it before i turn it over to him.i think i got him hooked now all i have to do is real him in.....

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 03:46:33 AM »
Glad you had a good time Lew.

I am not sure what your problem was with the MO flints. Maybe you had a bad one. I have been using them for a couple of years and they work as well or better than most black English or French Blonde flints I have used.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 03:46:58 AM by DrTimBoone »
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Daryl

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 04:05:32 AM »
I'm using up my English flints along with the flints I got from Rich Pierce. I don't know what a Missouri flint is.  I find Rich's flints are harder and scrape more steel each throw.  The test I did, was to dry-fire with no priming, each type, freshly knapped, same length, height, etc. Rich's flints consistantly left more steel curls in the pan with more sizzles.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 04:10:24 AM »
The MO flints I use are from Rich as well.
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

lew wetzel

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 04:36:30 AM »
i got mine from rich also,started out with one and it fired off atleast 10 times then started to not spark,so i tried to retighten it and it was fine .reprimed and still no spark,so i put a different flint in and got off a few more and then it started to misfire again,still tight and nice and straight .after another misfire i put one of my black english flints in and got off atleast 20 shots in a row.go fiqure!!!

Candle Snuffer

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 05:03:50 AM »
Lew, glad to hear your getting your dad hooked on muzzleloading.  No better hobby or interest to have in my opinion! :)

Never used any of Richs' flints, though I'm sorely tempted to.  I have noticed that the quality of the black english flints don't seem to be what they use to be.  I figure out of a dozen EF's there are going to be a few that won't last or spark as well as the rest, but this last dozen I got, well lets just say they were/are very disappointing.  Perhaps 'quanity' control has replaced 'quality' control...


lew wetzel

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 05:22:33 AM »
not sure what the problem was except richs dont seem to have the same edge as the bl.english have his seem to be more "jagged".while the english flints i have are nice and straight across the front.striking edge that is.

halfmeasures

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 05:43:11 AM »
Here's an excerpt from Rich's add:
Quote
I knap flints from local Missouri flint. These are not meant to compete with the English or French flints you were issued or you traded for at the fort or post. These simulate what you might be forced to make when your commercial flint supply runs out, you have to or choose to stay away from your supply lines longer than planned, or you had to skedaddle and run with what you could carry.

northmn

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 02:45:43 PM »
As I understand it only one flint was used.  You will get a few English that don't work so well either.  Try a few more of each.  Good to see others get interested.  Its always fun to let someone who had never fired a flinter shoot one.  I thought I would almost have to catch one as one individual almost dropped one of mine the first shot.

DP

Daryl

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 06:09:55 PM »
Interesting, Lew - I find Rich's flints to last just as long as the English flints and give better ignition.  If you snap a flint and it doens't spark twice in a row- it has a hard round spot striking the frizzen. You have to knap that spot off - normal flint shooting stuff.  I find the English flints get more of these 'hards' I call them, than do Rich's flints, but flints are flints- they need to be worked on occasionally.
: I find new Missouri flints to require less initial 'sharpening'(knapping) than do Egnlish flints and usually require none at all for the first shot.
 

J.D.

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 06:35:34 PM »
I have a coupla Missouri flints made by Rich, but haven't used 'em yet. However, I have been using home made flints of Missouri chert off and on for over 20 years with mixed results, depending of the type and color of the chert.

That said, I probably have gotten more and hotter sparks from flints made from dark Mo chert than from English flints. Dark grey and especially red chert makes for really hot sparks. I save the few and far between red ones for hunting.

Texas Gray flint works good too, as does a kinda blueish flint from the southeast.

No matter what kind of flint one uses, it's gotta be knapped to refresh the edge. Some flints require more attention than others, even if knapped from the same core.

lew wetzel

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2008, 02:32:50 AM »
northmn,i had tried two of the misouri flints and was getting the same results.and only one of the blk.english.i will re-edge the two from rich and get back out soon and try them again.i have gotten two dozen off him......and this was the first time i used them.i am in no way putting down rich or his flints,i just had better luck with the others.so before i base an opinion i will go back out and shoot off another 50 rounds.

roundball

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2008, 02:58:28 AM »
Never tried any Missouri flints...tried a few different "agate" sawed flints, thought they were all junk, tried a couple dozen french amber flints a couple years ago but found them less quality than Fullers...seem soft and crumbly...I recall getting over 50 shots on only one of them, and the rest were 2-3 dozen shots average...and they were ridiculously expensive...no plans to ever buy any more.

Fuller's 3/4" x 7/8" BEFs work so well in my locks I don't know what else I could ask for...never a lack of sparks, long flint life, etc...

Offline LynnC

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2008, 03:20:09 AM »
I've never bought any black english flints so I can't compare, but Rich's rocks beat the heck out of most of my homemade flints!  Reworked flint chips from old indian sites are a hit and miss proposition at best and their is NO suitable local stone to work with.  Anywhere I go out of state I'm always looking good flint. 
Anyway - Rich's flints are working well for me.........................Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Online rich pierce

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 05:45:26 PM »
northmn,i had tried two of the misouri flints and was getting the same results.and only one of the blk.english.i will re-edge the two from rich and get back out soon and try them again.i have gotten two dozen off him......and this was the first time i used them.i am in no way putting down rich or his flints,i just had better luck with the others.so before i base an opinion i will go back out and shoot off another 50 rounds.

Lew (Chris), my buddies have bragged them up so much that maybe folks expect more than every flint will deliver on every lock.  No worries and good luck- as always, I have the "return them, no questions asked" policy and I mean that- no offense taken.  They aren't for everybody and are not English flints at cheaper prices.  And to be clear, I do think the forum is the right place to compare products, so I am not offended at all by the discussion.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2008, 06:22:39 PM »
If the shooter has a lock in which the make up of the cock to frizzen angle is such that the flint mashes against the frizzen and he does not move the flint back in the jaws he may very well have poor spark.  You want your flint to scrape rather than mash itself against that frizzen.  This change may very well make sparkers out of those white Missouri flints.

I have some; but have yet to try them..  I should and will.. :)

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2008, 06:32:57 PM »
I was dry firing my gun with a Rich Pierce True White Missouri Flint in the jaws, and I set my couch on fire. I'm glad I was wearing my leather breeches at the time, or I mighta burnt my legs off.

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

lew wetzel

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 06:59:02 PM »
rich,thank you for not being offended.i will not return the flints.i will reknapp  as i go.and i have alot more shooting before i can even base an opinion.i have only started using your flints and that would not be fair to just quit using them because of one bad day.

lew wetzel

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 07:06:16 PM »
thats real funny tom....lol.when i first got my flints from rich,i took them in the bathroom and put one in my jaeger lock and turned the lights off and tested them and man did it spark.my jaeger lock is alittle stronger than my other lock.

Mike R

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 11:42:41 PM »
There are differences in "flint"--a variety of chert to a mineralogist.  Cherts can have different  microcrystalline sizes, vary in porosity and composition [flint/chert is dominantly silica (SiO2) but can have impurities]. These mineralogical factors can affect how it cuts steel, although hardness is generally ~7 [Mohs scale].  For example, Arkansas Novaculite--a form of bedded chert used as whetstones, tools and "flints"--comes in "grades" that reflect porosity mostly--the smooth translucent white to black stones are ultra dense and impart more of a polish than a cut to steel, whereas the Washita grade has enough porosity to form a "grainy" surface of sharp edges around micropores and these more aggressively cut steel. The other factor is form of the rifle flint per se, that is how it is knapped--its final used form. A smooth front edge will shave off smaller bits of steel from the frizzen I imagine, from microserrations along its edge, whereas a jagged front edge might take off fewer but larger bits of the frizzen--gouge it, as it were.   I suspect that frizzen life is affected by such parameters as well as flint life. There are alot of variables in firing a flint lock.

ironwolf

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 02:07:58 AM »
  You're dead right about Mike. One of the biggest and most overlooked variable is frizzen hardness.  I've seen really good sparking frizzens loose there surface hardness from wear and start stalling and breaking flints. A too hard frizzen will make small and few sparks.
  KW

roundball

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2008, 02:29:25 AM »
They aren't for everybody and are not English flints at cheaper prices.
Rich, althought I probably have a 10 year supply of Fuller's BEFs, one of the nice things about this great hobby is trying stuff...so  like to buy a dozen of your Missouri flints to get some hands on experience with them...the size Fullers BEFs I use are 3/4"W x 7/8"L if you have something like that.

If you'll PM your mailing addres and a $$ amount, I'll send you some moolah...and don't pick them over or anything...just grab a handful of them so I'll get a typical mix, etc.
Thanks
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 02:43:41 AM by roundball »

Offline Long John

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2008, 04:26:00 PM »
I have been using Rich's flints for over a year and I find them certainly equal to if not superior to the black English flints and the French brown flints.  Different rifles will "like" different loading components.  My rifle likes Rich's flints so I do too.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Offline LynnC

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2008, 08:46:59 PM »
True Story - I was using one of Rich's Rocks and was ending my 2nd  30+/- backyard shooting session with this particular flint.  I was thinking " just how many shot can I get out of this flint? " when I blew it out of the cock jaws and lost it.

Be honest now - If it keeps sparking, how often do you check your flint?  I wipe the flint every shot and should have noticed if it was loose.  I should have checked that it was tight.  Oh well.  Anyway, I got about 60 shots without knapping before I lost it.

To be truthful, I did shatter one flint but hey, Rich sent extra in the package.  Good sparkers for me....................Lynn
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Willy

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Re: english flints -vs-misouri flints
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2008, 05:54:56 PM »
I started using French flints a few years ago.The first batch were terrific,lasted 75-100 shots,a few even more.The recent ones were very expensive and performed poorly.A few simply shattered on the first shot.I'm switching to dark ones,English or domestic.
                                Willy
I have been using Rich's flints for over a year and I find them certainly equal to if not superior to the black English flints and the French brown flints.  Different rifles will "like" different loading components.  My rifle likes Rich's flints so I do too.

Best Regards,

John Cholin