What do you think?

[Gaeckle]

I pulled all the hardware off the rifle, scuffed it up and am re-rusting.   I will let it go until I have pits and then scrub back to a fairly even brown.   About the wood,  I am going to add more gunk, but not enough to cover up the "NEON" silver wire.   Actually, it might pop a bit more with the metal darker.    I know I am disgusting a number of you.

Out of curiosity, how do you plan on adding "gunk"?

[Mark Elliott]

I had used a glaze of gunstock finish and lamp black oil paint.   I may use a layer of that, but sprinkle powdered charcaol on the wet finish and let it all dry then scrub back here and there.    It is kind of what I have done on horns.   I am new to this level of "aging" so I am making it up as I go.   I guess I will just treat it like a painting and build up a little here and a little there.   I will be happy to accept suggestions.

[Gaeckle]

I had used a glaze of gunstock finish and lamp black oil paint.   I may use a layer of that, but sprinkle powdered charcaol on the wet finish and let it all dry then scrub back here and there.   

........powdered charcoal......that sounds interesting.........I wonder if artist's chalk would work.....want to see this

[Birddog6]

IMHO, It would have been a good looking rifle if you had left the wire off. When I look at it, all I see is silver wire & IMHO it doesn't fit the rifle.    Your work is Much Much better than this.

Keith Lisle

[Mark Elliott]

Wow Keith,  you really sound disappointed in me, but I respect your opinion.

[Larry Luck]

For one, I like the rifle.  I like the overall architecture of the gun and the proportions and shaping of the buttstock in particular.

The silver does sort of zing you, but it should become less aggressively visible as it tarnishes.  Given the antiqued finish on the rest of the rifle, artificially tarnishing the wire would diminish the impact.  But that's not really what I understand Mark was trying to achieve.

It sure has generated discussion.

Good to see you building and posting, Mark.

Larry Luck

[Mark Elliott]

Larry,

You are right that I didn't want to diminish the impact of the silver.   I used thick wire to make a statement.   Like I said at the top, this was a contemporary piece.   It was never intended to be a traditional gun of a particular school.   It was an experiment, and apparently, it was more successful than I could imagine.  I wanted to prompt strong reactions and I did.   

I may tone the silver down some, though.   

Mark

[Mark Elliott]

You know,  it is no fun for an artist to make the same thing that everybody else makes.   I know how to build a proper "longrifle".   Now, comes the real fun as I learn to decorate them and try new things.    Some will be a hit and some will be a miss, and some will be both; but I respect and welcome all opinions.

[Acer Saccharum]

Mark, I applaud your courage to put your work out for all to make comment on. I also think you have shown a lot of character in this build, and I like it just for that, besides its graceful form. I have always meekly (safely?) stayed within the 'schools'. Your effort will encourage me to step out of my safe zone, and try a build from a different perspective.

Thanks, Tom

[Brian]

I really like the looks of the rifle.  Love the general lines and metal work on it, and don't really have any serious problem with the silver.  It's a work of art, so who other than the artist is to say what's right or wrong.  If it was a copy of something that might be differnet, but it's not.  It's art.  I think if I could wave a wand and "poof" some of the silver could be gone I'd probably remove that silver around the patch box, but I don't mind the silver on the cheekpiece side.  Just my two cents worth, and that's about all my opinion is worth.

Great work Mark.

[Don Getz]

Mark......I like the architecture of the gun.    I would prefer a darker gun, just a personal preferrence.   I don't like the silver
wire, it just seems out of place on this type of gun, and, it does have kind of a "neon" affect......Don

[Larry Luck]

As I've been thinking about the comments, I remembered a very gifted craftsman who used to post here with some regularity, whose work was phenomenal but way beyond the traditional schools:  Jerry Huddleston.  

Here is a link to a page on his site that shows an expertly built piece with details found nowhere in Kindig or RCA:

http://www.jwh-flintlocks.net/vigilance-pg2.html

Mark's is different, for sure, but so is Jerry's.

Larry Luck

[Mark Elliott]

Larry,  I will try to go back to a little more historically correct for a while, but sometimes,  you just have to throw something against the wall to see if it sticks.     

Mark

[Mark Elliott]

Oh..... To Tom..... I have actually been to art school, and in art school,  EVERYTHING you do is critiqued by the ENTIRE class and the teacher.  You all gather in a circle around the work while 20 or so other people tell you what the particularly like or don't like about the work; and woe be unto you if you didn't put forth your best effort.  It will show and you will get crucified.   

Part of your grade in every class is for how well you critique others.   It is how you learn.    So... I am not so brave as you think.   It is just something I learned to do and expect.   You also learn to stand up for your work and respect other peoples opinions without taking them to heart.   No artist,  graphic or performing would get very far if they took criticism personally.   They would just stop doing it.   In formal critiques you talk very specifically about the work and not the artist.   You avoid making it any more personal than it has to be.   Most people try to be honest and kind.   Some teachers though,  seem to,  at the very least,  not give a @!*% about the student's feelings.   There is always a good bit of crying freshman year of art school.

Mark

[Birddog6]

Wow Keith,  you really sound disappointed in me, but I respect your opinion.

Mark,  I am not disappointed in you, I just don't care for the wire in that style rifle & don't feel it fits it.  It was not meant as any disrespect.  I have allot of respect for you and your work. Your work by far exceeds anything I do. But you did ask for opinions & I know you hoped to hear both sides of the story.  I may be the only one that doesn't care for the wire, or could be the only one that will actually say it.  I have studied every piece I have ever seen you post, over & over.  You do awesome work, no doubt about it.  I just don't think the wire inlay enhanced the rifle.  Probably just me.

 

Keith Lisle

[kutter]

I like the rifle a lot. There's nothing so radical about it's lines that it takes it out of the traditional LR,,but yet the maker is comfortable not to be a slave to a particular maker/style.
I like that and see myself doing that more often than not when building one or a cartridge gun. There's plenty of attempts at strict copies of originals,,most come up short when critiqued from that view.
So why not let your own style creep into the build. The level of workmanship & craftsmanship stays the same.

No matter what you build,,it'll never please everyone no matter how well it's done.

[M Tornichio]

Mark,
Thanks for posting the rifle. It takes courage to put something different up in front of the world. I respect you for doing it and asking for an honest critique. I think you did a great job with the architecture. I personally don't care for the skinny lock panels. I prefer the skinny lock panels top and bottom, but like the front and rear elongated. I think it helps the rifle flow if done correctly. However I can appreciate you going the route of additional refinement. I do feel that it does add. I think you did a great job on the mounts. You usually have very smooth lines these are no different. I don't have an opinion on the wire other than I think it will look better once it tarnishes. I respect the rifle for what it is. A contemporary rifle. I say keep pushing . You said it best, you wanted to try something new. You can build a traditional rifle. Keep pushing with each rifle and see where you end up 10 rifles from now.

I can relate you your art school experience. I went to architecture school. We presented to the entire class and a guest teacher. Rarely did people try to be nice. Eventually you learn to take the best of the critique and not take it personal. Your lessons learned will take you far in your art.
Thanks for posting.
Marc

[Mark Elliott]

Kieth,

I didn't think you disrespected me or offended me in any way.   You did what I asked you to do and I appreciate it.    By the way, you are not alone in thinking the wire inlay was out of place.    I know that the gun would be much more conventional and appropriate without the wire, but I still like it.    I am still tweaking it a bit and will re-photograph it when I am done.     When done with it,  it will just sit on the wall of my shop until somebody wants it.   In the mean time,  I will use it as my hunting rifle.   Use and abuse will only make it better.

[Gaeckle]

You know,  it is no fun for an artist to make the same thing that everybody else makes.   I know how to build a proper "longrifle".   Now, comes the real fun as I learn to decorate them and try new things.    Some will be a hit and some will be a miss, and some will be both; but I respect and welcome all opinions.

Hard to get out of the comfort zone and stretch your abilities.......but how else are we going to learn without doing? I applaud your statement.

[Mike Brooks]

Well, I'm late....
 I like the gun. I'm sure you have seen my work so take all of this with a grain of salt.
 The architecture is good. I find  the fact that the gun has such finely made hand forged mounts impressive. I'm a bit giddy and envious of your bravery with those slim lock panels....I've been trying to pull off something like that for years but just don't have the balls for it.
 Now, this is just my personal opinion of course..... I'd match the metal and wood ageing. Go ahead and lighten up the wood in the wear areas and bash it around a bit. Bash a couple dings in the barrel also....always an interesting effect.....so much for that...
 I think This gun is good enough it didn't need the wire to pull it off. I understand the artistic desire to add it and the artistic statement works, but I just don't think this particular gun needed it, even though the execution is excellent. I certainly like the thickness of the wire around the patch box, very bold. I'm guessing that while you play around with the finish the wire may end up working better if you tone it down a bit. Great wire design, just a bit startling at the moment.
 Thanks for posting this up for critique, I believe we all learn something when somebody does this sort of thing.

[Mark Elliott]

Mikes,

Thanks for the input.   Since you make your living at this, your opinion is worth quite a bit.     I am working more on the metal and wood finish.   Hopefully,  it will improve the look a bit.

Thanks,

Mark E.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I just got to this thread and like Mike feel a bit late.  There are many things I like about the rifle, and would be proud to add it to my rack.  The lock panel is fine, but not traditional.  Traditional lock panels are pretty ugly in my opinion.  I would have extended the wrist back into the comb to the spur of the guard.  That would have exaggerated the slimness of the wrist and the whole architecture, and i love that in a delicately made beautiful rifle.
The forestock is remarkably thin along the barrel channel, yet is not slab sided in any way - remarkable, I'll say it again.  The silver wire is abrupt.  It's screaming affect could have been softened by tapering the terminals, and using slightly thinner ribbon.  But I like the effect of it as is, regardless.  Personally, I don't care for aging - I subject my rifles to serious use, and they age naturally fast enough.  I really like all of the "iron" furniture and the way it has been employed in this build.  I have an iron mounted mountain rifle to build yet, and have studied a lot of material to get a feeling for it, but even so, I cannot say I could pull off such a great rifle as this, even if it was labelled a fantasy or non traditional rifle.  To step away from what is recognizable as 'correct' and still come up with a great rifle is so commendable.  I applaud Mark's work on this one...I'd love to shoot it.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

The pros have given you some very high quality feedback...on a beautiful gun.  

Here is my opinion for what it is worth..... Wiley Higgens was a great  silversmith who..in my opinion gott carried away with what he knew best... when building rifles..... I think they and many 19th century guns are jus gaudy......... But you can't say he didn't have guts to push the limits!!  

So i think you should add more wire... at the entry thimble and at the muzzle thimble and maybe the middle thimble as well.......Make a statement!!   I like the lock panel very much.... somehow the side panel looks fat iin the butt to me.... maybe just angle of view..... Cause as small as the lock panel is, how could the side panel  be too fat??

I appreciate your stepping out and creating your gun and still paying homage to the ancestry.