what to build???

[rogero]

Thoughts to ponder for sure. is it ok to use a petroleum based stain or do the finishes availlable designed to be used exclusivly with water/alcohol based finishes?
the reason i ask is that i have a custom stain my brother mixed for me (at least it smells like its petroleum based) its called fireside and sorta goes on like thick brown paint. you simply wipe off whatever you dont need and you are left with an incredibly rich and dark red and wherever ther is a corner its almost black! should this question be directed to Mr / Miss Chambers? as it is there finish i will be using, provided I can get it over the border
Rog

[rich pierce]

Our Canadians can help direct you to good sources, I am sure.  Maybe personal message Taylor Sapergia or Brian Dancey.

[rogero]

I am led to believe the 2 gentlemen you mentioned are people i should get to know?
thanx fer the input
Rog

[J.D.]

  at the very least i could practice carving and engraving

From personal experience, IMHO, it would be much better to practice carving and engraving on scrap pieces that will be secured from prying eyes, in the deepest, darkest trash pit on the planet, 'cause you ain't gonna want anyone to see how bad those beginning practice pieces will be.

I suggest drawing every example of carving or engraving you can find, either in books or on the net, before putting a knife to wood or graver to steel.

IMHO, if you can't draw it, you won't be able to carve or engrave it, so break out paper and pencil and draw your little heart out.   Once your drawings begin to look uniform and symmetrical, practice on scrap wood and steel.  

I also suggest drawing the locations of your components on the side of the stock provided with your kit, especially on cheap kits. Otherwise the various components may vie for precious space on the stock. Better yet, drawing a full scale plan, on craft paper or freezer paper,  will help you to understand the relationships of the various components.

There have been several good threads on drawings and plans, so a search of the archives should turn up a lot of information.

God Bless,
J.D.

[rogero]

Hi JD thanks a lot as even now i am finding out things i never would have thought of till it was too late!
Peter alexander has showed me a few tricks and tips as to how an go about thhings and i figure that if i hang out here long enough, i should be able to figure out a few more
Rog

[rogero]

I went into the virtual museum to see what i could see and there was no isaac haines rifles does anybody know where there are pictures of said rifle?

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Here is a contemporary replica http://www.allenmartinrifles.com/html/lancaster.html

There is another site with many original rifles, but my antique memory is failing me now.

[rogero]

thanks ill look into it

Rog

[J. Talbert]

Rog,

Oil based stain will work.  When it comes to longrifles, you name it & somebody has tried it.
However, one of the big reasons for the popularity of aqua fortis, in addition to it's traditional appeal, is that it penetrates the wood somewhat and really seems to make the figure (curl) in curly maple stand out.

[rogero]

AAAA I see now we are getting somwhere! I will take a look at my stail and see how it works on curl ,,, ill keep you posted
but do you know if oil based will work with the chambers stock finish?
Rog

[Rich]

Some things to consider are why you want to build rather than buy. If your goal is only to save money on a rifle, I don't think you can save much on a rifle like a Dickert or Haines.  Carving tools, engraving tools, and other gunbuilding tools will make the gun at least as much as a good used one. Learning to carve, learning to engrave, and getting the stock architecture right building from scratch would also be a big task on your first build. I think that's why people said you would be disappointed. I would therefore recommend the best kit you can get (Chambers) in a plain style. Doing so will give you the best chance for a good result. I personally hand inlet my barrels and don't think it's any more difficult to do a swamped barrel. In a kit, it's pre-inlet so go for it if you want. If you plan on building as a hobby, I would do the same and make my second and later builds fancier or from scratch. You can assemble the tools and skills you need more slowly. Each rifle I build gets better and I'm sure that's true for all. What that means is that once your first rifle is done, you will have ideas on how the next one will be better. That's how it starts. So, you will probably build another, and another, etc. I would also recommend looking at each task in the build as a separate project. Take your time doing each task, check the archives on the topic, read any tutorials, as well as any books you may have. The information on this sight is incredible.

[rogero]

well first off , i have all sorts of time after work( no kids just puppies)  and as far as carving goes, there is lots of scrap wood hanging around...and a pile of metal too! so i guess ill get to practicing! now i just have to figgure out what i need fer tools! and books and videos and........well you get the picture
thanx
Rog

[Karl Kunkel]

Rog,

Here's a link to a Haines fowler:

http://www.americanhistoricservices.com/html/isaac_haines.html

No cheek piece, but some carving.

R/
Karl

[rogero]

thank you very much!
Rog

[northwoodsdave]

Rog

You asked about videos.  Most black powder sources carry them.  You can find a two disk series on Muzzleloader building, in fact, I think there's more than one.  Pistols are in there too, as well as the Jack Brooks discs on beginning carving and beginning engraving.  I have yet to find a video I would NOT recommend.  You get to see how it's actually done and, in the case of different craftsmen, the wide variations in technique and style.  For me, actually seeing it is the key.  I can read how to do it, but watching it done makes all the difference.

That's not to say the books aren't invaluable.  I'm sure I've spent far more getting books and cds than I have on actual gun hardware.  But that's my particular style and each of us has our own 'right' way to do things. 

I tend to agree with the advice given here to keep the first one simple.  All that engraving and carving is wonderful, but you are building a gun first and foremost.  The pretty parts can wait till later. 

Get the basics down first:  inletting, cutting barrel channels and getting the trigger, lock and barrel into the right relationship.  My favorite personal gun is a relatively plain Leman style, but beautifully laid out.  Simple, elegant and accurate as heck.  Whoever made it was a master.

And there is no reason you can't inlet a lock into a 2x4, just for practice.  I save all kinds of small scrap, just to practice on.  I prefer to work with actual hardwood, like maple and walnut, since pine just isn't the same.  That is especially true working with the fancier woods, like tiger striped maple and birdseye.  They are very demanding, and it's best  to practice before you cut into an expensive stock. 

Working on your drawing skills is great.  If you can't draw it, you can't engrave it.  And the relationships are exactly the same on paper as they are on that exorbitantly expensive piece of wood you just bought.   Make your mistakes as cheap as possible!

At least, that's the way I do things.  We all have our own style, and you need to find what works best for you.  And the only way you can do that is by actually DOING it.

Hope this helps

David L

[rogero]

Dave, it most certainly helps! and as soon as catalogues start arriving, i will start making decisions.
back in new brunswick (where i am from originaly_ curly maple...there is a ton of the stuff and everybody would rather use it in a stove  simply because its hard to work with!  so needless to say ill pick some up while im there visitin the kin folk
so on the matter of chisels and gouges... any recommendations?
Rog

[Larry Luck]

Here's a link to the list of suggested tools for Gary Brumfield's carving class, offered most years at the NMLRA workshop at Western Kentucky University.

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Tools%20&%20Techniques/tools_for_carving_class.htm

Everybody develops his own favorite set of tools that are used much more frequently than others.

Larry Luck

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Rog,

Here's a link to a Haines fowler:

http://www.americanhistoricservices.com/html/isaac_haines.html

No cheek piece, but some carving.

R/
Karl

Karl, thanks taht was the site  coould not remember. Rog this is a good one.

[rogero]

thaks a milion larry! just what i was lookin fer .... got it printed and am on my way to the toy store!!!
Rog

[WadePatton]

Well, I'm another new newbie.  I'm making a hunting rifle which should resemble a TN/Carolina type gun.  I've been poking around enough to find out that experts don't agree.

I'm lucky to have found an experienced builder/shooter 30 minutes to the south and a fully-stocked supplier (and experienced builder/shooter) 1.5 hours to the northwest.  They both have originals and most of the reference work on the subject--and the experience and tooling that I may lean on-just a bit.

Otherwise I'm quite handy with tools and making tooling.  I really get into metal work.  I found a couple of $ under the tree a few days ago and bought a swamped bbl and a top-notch lock.  Next I'll find a piece of wood to hack on.  If I funk up the wood-I'll patch it or trash it-the primary function of this gun is hunting.

Mike Brooks has a good pictorial of a full build. 

Take your time, study the methods (they'll differ slightly-more than one way to skin a possum), measure twice, take your time, keep your tools sharp, stop when you have a question-inquire, take your time, remember that any tool that makes a process go faster can also create havoc faster, and enjoy. 

Tha's my plan.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Welcome Wade!! Guess you found Tip Curtis perhaps??  He has a supply of everything there in TN.

[rogero]

thanx wade, your right on the milion different ways to skin a possom as can be found in the various pages in info included herein    but i wont have anybody to go and "HANG" with to see how things are done, so for now, this is my only resource. but as soon as git ta where im gittin to, i will be in better shape ....i hope
Rog