Deciding between cherry and maple for fowler

[killerD]

A while back I was poking around on here looking for some advice on a fowler build. However I got distracted with other things before I could pull the trigger.  So ive been re-researching my project. I tend to suffer from analysis paralysis...but I want to have a finished product in mind before I even start. And that means having my stock finishing process ironed out before I even start.

I've pretty much settled on a chambers NE fowler in 10 ga. Initially I was pretty much set on getting it in maple. But ive run across a few cherry stocked guns on here that are just gorgeous. Cherry just feels so right on a fowler (i'll probably do maple for my first rifle).

This will be my first build so i'm still weighing the best options for me. I tend to be the kind of guy that can pencil sketch a decent enough picture but once I try to color it in I ruin it!!! (what Im getting at is that Id like to find a fairly straightforward and consistent staining process to follow).

Frankly im in love with the gun that smallpatch made. I really like that deep reddish brown with the mottled figure, and I kinda like the shine on the stock. If I could replicate his fowler I would be a happy man.

 http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=317.0

I've read a few threads about the finishing of cherry. It seems like there's two trains of thought. Either use lye to darken the figure and let it age naturally. OR stain it like smallpatch did or with LMF nut brown with a dab of LMF cherry, however ive also read that this method can muddy up the figure.

I really do like the results of the staining method but want to do the wood justice and highlight the figure as much as possible.
 
        Is there any concern with colorfastness of the staining method?

        Does the staining method change the way the wood ages vs the lye method???

If I went with the cherry...I guess im leaning towards the staining method, but my limited research hasn't really brought up many naturally aged cherry stocks with the lye method. One of my concerns with the lye method is the reliability of it, it seems like its a "you get what you get" kind of process. There's a few that ive seen on here that are very blonde in color, and theres a few that ive seen that are almost purple.


Another one of my concerns is that with the cherry route there's a possibility that in 20-30 years or whatever the stock will end up so dark that the figure is pretty well hidden. My understanding is that a maple stock doesn't quite undergo as much of a color change as it ages...maple may be easier to work with and inlet, but i'm not totally sure.

I did run across some stained maple stocks that looked very nice with a treatment of AF then LMF nut brown/cherry mix.

Such as KY-Flinter's on this thread:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30188.0

Below is few other threads with some cherry stocked inspiration. I really like the darker examples especially with the mottling, but smallpatches' fowler is kind of my goal if I go cherry.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29545.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37127.0


So with all the above in mind...and given that this is my first build.... Is there any reason that I should shy away from cherry and go with the maple?

If anyone would like to share their finishing process Id be grateful to see some of the different methods. (I do like mike brooks aging technique with the flat black spray paint).

Thanks for your replies...

PS...sorry for the ramble, sometimes I like to use others as a sounding board to flesh out my ideas. Hopefully you understand my thinking 

[smylee grouch]

Cherry and dont worry about the stain. 

[WadePatton]

Cherry and dont worry about the stain. 

good idea.

[PPatch]

I don't believe you'll go wrong with cherry, stained dark or not. Cherry ages beautifully all on its own and that is one of its charms. In my opinion  cherry is one of the prettier woods and I like to work with it.

dave

[smart dog]

Hi,
Here is another cherry stocked fowler to consider.  It is tinted with aniline dye.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38672.0

Many of the southern New England makers used curly maple.  For example, the Hills family (Benoni, Medad, and John) of Goshen, CT usually used highly figured maple for their stocks.  Their guns had more English influence in style. Further north, cherry was used more often and the style was often more French influenced.  Cherry can be very beautiful and ages well.  I essentially colored the wood as it would naturally age. 

dave

[killerD]

Thanks smart dog! I saw that one!

Do you mind expanding on your finishing process? What dye did you use? And what's the theory behind doing the flat black then the dye? (I would think it would be the other way around). I guess your fowler is still young, but has the wood darkened yet?

As a side note...I like the way you finished that lock!

[54ball]

 Today I had the privilege to handle a original NE made fowling piece circa 1800-10 stocked in cherry. It was locked with a Ketland (identical to Chambers late Ketland) and was decorated with silver wire. Slim and trim, it was magnificent. The barrel was a work of art. It was beautifully engraved with a slight sighting rib filed in (the rib was proud so the barrel was extensively filed or possibly it was forged that way and finished up) from the breech to the front sight. There are so many details that you can only see by handling an original.

 Cherry and walnut tend to crack and chip out if used with dull tools or worked too heavy handed. My first real rifle I'm working on now is in cherry. I love the wood.

 Here  is how I Plan to finish my rifle.
 For the most part I'm going to scrape it and whisker it with scrapers. I may have to use sand paper here and there but I'm planning to do as much scraping as possible.
 After it's scraped my first coat will be de waxed shellac. tinting with a few drops of tint is optional...
 The shellac will be scraped/sanded. This is to seal the grain.
 The main finish will be Jim Chambers oil varnish finish
 Lastly it will be waxed.
 The only stain I will use may be some tint in the shellac.
 The rifle should turn if exposed to light really quickly.

 I may be ready to finish in 2-3 weeks so I'll post the results for you. 

[Mike Brooks]

Horse before the cart....maybe you can't even build a gun.....

That being suggested, either wood is proper for that gun, just a personal preference sort of thing. Most importantly,  make sure you select a piece of wood with excellent grain structure through the wrist with a 10 bore. That is something I'd prefer to do in person.

[killerD]

Ouch Mike!!!! I've got the jim turpin video...no problems! lol.

I tell you what.... if I run out of patience i'll send it to you!!!

I'll probably differ to Mr. Chambers expertise on the wood portion...since im pretty much clueless (ok maybe not, but I'll trust the creator of the kit anyway).

[smart dog]

Hi KillerD,
I painted the stock first with very thin black enamel paint.  It highlighted the grain of cherry , which can be very fine and faint, by adding a color contrast . Then I rubbed it back with a scotch brite pad and tinted it with a simple reddish brown water-based aniline dye made from mixing Brownell's resorcin brown and orange aniline dye powders in water.  It was quite dilute and just tinted the wood.  Finish and sunlight did the rest.  The lock is finished by polishing the surfaces with stones and oil.  Then it is case hardened and I add potassium nitrate to the quench water.  When quenched the metal takes on a slight bluish-green hue with some mottled purples as well.  Very translucent and slight colors. Then I temper the plate and flintcock at 490 degrees for 1 hour, which adds a little amber tone.  Sometimes, I polish off the color for a bright finish, other times, as in this case, I just leave it.

dave

[Mike Brooks]

Ouch Mike!!!! I've got the jim turpin video...no problems! lol.

I tell you what.... if I run out of patience i'll send it to you!!!

I'll probably differ to Mr. Chambers expertise on the wood portion...since im pretty much clueless (ok maybe not, but I'll trust the creator of the kit anyway).

You may be worrying over much about things you may never get to. Get a gun built first, then worry about stock stains and finishes.

[Daryl]

Maple can be nice  - here's one Taylor built a number of years ago:

 

A stock like this on a flowler would really be nice, with a little burl in the butt.

[killerD]

Mike...although your pessimism is probably well founded...Let's assume I do finish the build!!! :p

Does it not makes sense to have an end goal in mind?  That's why I started the thread. To try to figure out the ideal process to follow or wood to choose.

Daryl ... I like that figure! Very nice!

Smart dog- thanks for sharing! I appreciate the knowledge! I may go that route

[Mike Brooks]

Mike...although your pessimism is probably well founded...Let's assume I do finish the build!!! :p

Does it not makes sense to have an end goal in mind?  That's why I started the thread. To try to figure out the ideal process to follow or wood to choose.

Daryl ... I like that figure! Very nice!

Smart dog- thanks for sharing! I appreciate the knowledge! I may go that route

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for you doing what ever you want to.