Author Topic: Are we more worried about looks as opposed to performance? (Read 27340 times)

little joe · « **Reply #50 on:** July 20, 2016, 09:01:56 PM »

If they were down range, they needed to be sent home in a hurry. We post our safety rules at my local club and every month we have a quick refresher and if there are any beginners we take extra time with them. Gotta shoot safe.

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 21, 2016, 02:41:51 AM »

Good point Joe. I believe that's the way Phil and Rich looked at it, they violated the safety rules. They're done.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #52 on:** July 21, 2016, 08:47:09 PM »

Getting back to the subject. My point of view has been tainted by a gentleman that I shot against years ago. He built his own half stocked rifle. It had quality barrel, lock and triggers. The rest of the rifle was made from an old barn beam, and the recycled wrought iron salvaged from a horse drawn manure spreader. His wood working skills were marginal, and his blacksmithing skills were nearly nonexistent, and I assume he didn't own a file. The finish looked like it also was found in the barnyard, but it was a shooting machine. He cornered every pilgrim, at every event, and gave them the entire story of the build, and usually let them shoot his gun. Soon there was a whole group of new shooters shooting his wrecking yard rifles. They would all camped together, and the camp became known as the "junkyard jungle". This guy led a pretty large group astray for no good reason that I can think of, other than he wanted attention.

Hungry Horse

bgf · « **Reply #53 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:27:41 AM »

Cva mountain rifles are good shooters, glass bedded or not. If they had those rifles since new, they probably knew how to shoot them very well. Long swamped barrels are not optimal for offhand matches, as the evolution of offhand rifles will show. The club that disqualified them on the basis of glass bedding sounds like one of the wonderful organizations that is hastening the death of muzzleloader shooting.

I don't like the look of high sights on a rifle, but they are essential in any match over a few shots. If I complained about every sight on everybody's rifle that looks out of place, I would have no one to shoot with,
plus I changed my own!

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #54 on:** July 22, 2016, 05:52:42 AM »

I don't think the shooters were disqualified because of the glass bedding, they apparent were down range during the shoot.

In answer to the original question "Are we more worried about looks as opposed to performance?" I want my rifle to look good AND shoot accurately. Life is too short to shoot an ugly rifle.

-Ron

heelerau · « **Reply #55 on:** July 22, 2016, 04:37:05 PM »

[Ditto !!!!quote]

BEWARE of the new man with only one gun.He probably knows how to use it well.

Bob Roller
[/quote]

Daryl · « **Reply #56 on:** July 22, 2016, 07:43:27 PM »

Quote from: Ky-Flinter on July 22, 2016, 05:52:42 AM

I don't think the shooters were disqualified because of the glass bedding, they apparent were down range during the shoot.

In answer to the original question "Are we more worried about looks as opposed to performance?" I want my rifle to look good AND shoot accurately. Life is too short to shoot an ugly rifle.

-Ron

Towsend Whelen is usually noted as having 'coined' this phrase.

hanshi · « **Reply #57 on:** July 22, 2016, 10:13:46 PM »

I agree completely! No ugly rifles; excepting normal aging which doesn't make any rifle ugly.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #58 on:** July 22, 2016, 10:43:34 PM »

Quote from: Daryl on July 22, 2016, 07:43:27 PM

Quote from: Ky-Flinter on July 22, 2016, 05:52:42 AM
I don't think the shooters were disqualified because of the glass bedding, they apparent were down range during the shoot.

In answer to the original question "Are we more worried about looks as opposed to performance?" I want my rifle to look good AND shoot accurately. Life is too short to shoot an ugly rifle.

-Ron

Towsend Whelen is usually noted as having 'coined' this phrase.

Thanks Daryl. I had heard that saying before, but didn't know who to attribute it too.

-Ron

little joe · « **Reply #59 on:** July 22, 2016, 11:33:53 PM »

Every builder and every shooter should have the best they can afford as long as it is safe. I have shot 45 years and have saw some National contenders shoot some pretty ugly stuff. They would wipe your arse and send you home in a heart beat. One a school teacher from S. ILL. was in the top contenders at Friendship. His workmanship was sub standard but his shooting was super.

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #60 on:** July 23, 2016, 01:14:05 AM »

You can have the best made gun in the world. Pretty or ugly. But it's still up to the person holding it. But I am a firm believer in a traditional shoot is just that. No glass bedding etc. But that's just me. Mike

Marcruger · « **Reply #61 on:** July 24, 2016, 05:22:48 AM »

I have to agree. I have seen many shooters with fancy firearms, but it is the person behind the trigger that counts.

I recall shooting against my friend Dave one day, the prize being breakfast. He was shooting a target rifle, I was shooting a squirrel rifle. I complained that it wasn't a "fair fight". He reached over, swapped rifles, and cleaned my clock. It's the man behind the trigger!

God Bless, Marc

nosrettap1958 · « **Reply #62 on:** July 25, 2016, 03:50:10 PM »

And they're especially good shooters after they have been glass bedded. Searching through the internet trying to find some experiments on glass bedded rifles whether muzzleloading or breechloading. Can't seem to find anything except wood stocked rifles compared to synthetic stocked rifles or the experiment and/or comparison the shooter was performing was flawed to some degree therefore not providing the exact information I was looking for.

"Glass bedding serves many purposes; in wood stocks it acts as a sealer to exposed wood, but the primary function in both wood and synthetic stocks is to give the action full contact with the stock, preventing it from moving inside the stock — a certain accuracy wrecker."

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #63 on:** July 25, 2016, 05:46:31 PM »

Quote from: crawdad on July 25, 2016, 03:50:10 PM

And they're especially good shooters after they have been glass bedded. Searching through the internet trying to find some experiments on glass bedded rifles whether muzzleloading or breechloading. Can't seem to find anything except wood stocked rifles compared to synthetic stocked rifles or the experiment and/or comparison the shooter was performing was flawed to some degree therefore not providing the exact information I was looking for.

"Glass bedding serves many purposes; in wood stocks it acts as a sealer to exposed wood, but the primary function in both wood and synthetic stocks is to give the action full contact with the stock, preventing it from moving inside the stock — a certain accuracy wrecker."

In my own experience Glass bedding works well to make a poorly built gun shoot well. It doesn't make a well built gun shoot better. Early on in my career I bedded every thing, probably the first 15 or so, then I quit. My guns were/are still as accurate as any glass bedded gun. It really is a non issue with me. Bed if you want to or don't, who cares.....

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 25, 2016, 06:58:06 PM »

Timothy Murphy didn't. But if you think it helps. Do it. It's your gun.

Roger B · « **Reply #65 on:** July 25, 2016, 08:09:31 PM »

I think that Mike got it right. I recently bedded the barrel on a high end kit gun that I bought as partially completed. It initially shot all over the place from a barrel channel that creaked and cracked when you squeezed the barrel in the channel. A little accraglas later and it settled right in and shot very nicely and consistently. I also bedded a gun that went to pot accuracy wise after spending it's life in Oklahoma and moving to Arizona. It worked in that instance also. Other than bedding the breech to prevent splitting the wood, I look at glass bedding as just another trick to fix a poor shooting gun. As an aside, I wonder if the bench, buffalo, and slug gun shooters bed their barrels? I would think that you could seal the barrel channel pretty effectively with stock finish without the cost and trouble of the accraglas.
Roger B.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #66 on:** July 26, 2016, 12:18:02 AM »

Pretty much a mote point if the bedding job is done correctly. If its done right it should be invisible after the gun is assembled. As long as you didn't go around blabbing your fool head off about it none would be the wiser.

Smoketown · « **Reply #67 on:** July 26, 2016, 12:38:11 AM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on July 26, 2016, 12:18:02 AM

Pretty much a mote point if the bedding job is done correctly. If its done right it should be invisible after the gun is assembled. As long as you didn't go around blabbing your fool head off about it none would be the wiser.

Showing my age here ... At one time, the visible seam of Accra-Glass, Micro Bed or other 'accuracy enhancing material' along the barrel channel was the mark of a savvy shooter.

Yes, smokepoles included.

Cheers,
Smoketown

yardhunter · « **Reply #68 on:** August 07, 2016, 08:08:29 AM »

Nope…not me.

I could care less about looks or performance.
My gun looks as if it's been thru the Rev war.
Scratches & nicks all over it.
I go to shoot. If I should win ( which I haven't yet ) that 's wonderful.

If I don't, my poor shooting is much better than my best day at work.
At least I had the opportunity to sling a little lead………see ya yardhunter

Hadden West · « **Reply #69 on:** August 16, 2016, 01:28:55 AM »

There is another reason for glass bedding a muzzle loader. I have a Renegade stock, it has a 1" barrel channel, but I put a 15/16 Green Mt. barrel, that I came across, in the stock. Also, as far as accuracy is concerned, it is hard to beat a Douglas barrel. I have a custom 36 cal. rifle, that has a Douglas barrel. It out shoots, every other gun, that I have. Who knows, maybe those guys did what I did and put a 15/16 barrel in a 1' stock, and had to bed the stock to make it fit.

Then they might have thought the glass bedding would improve accuracy, when even, just the barrel alone, would have been good enough. Worked on the brains of the competition, and that might have given them the edge, that they needed.

Dave R · « **Reply #70 on:** August 16, 2016, 02:41:26 AM »

Quote from: little joe on July 22, 2016, 11:33:53 PM

Every builder and every shooter should have the best they can afford as long as it is safe. I have shot 45 years and have saw some National contenders shoot some pretty ugly stuff. They would wipe your arse and send you home in a heart beat. One a school teacher from S. ILL. was in the top contenders at Friendship. His workmanship was sub standard but his shooting was super.

Little Joe,
Would the shooter from So Ill happen to be J L Hargis? Back 35 + - years ago I competed regularly in So Ill and So Indiana matches, J L would show up with a floppy leather hat and a gun that the stock split from the breach to the muzzle and held together by Red Grey Yellow Black and any color tape he could find he also taped a few chunks of lead to the stock " We called them "J L shooting stabilizers", He brought an old small rusty tool box complete with a claw hammer with one of the claws broken off to start the balls a rusty can of powder and a few cluttered essentials and preceded to clean everybody's clock and is still winning his share of the matches at Friendship today !! He wore out something like 4 H&H barrels and 3 or so " Haddaway locks" ? However the triggers broke crisp and the lock was tuned to perfection!! The gun looked like a piece of junk and If you would see it at a flea market at first glance you would not have given $25.00 for it!!Talk about playing mind games with other shooters he was the KING!!

little joe · « **Reply #71 on:** August 16, 2016, 03:49:36 AM »

Quote from: Dave R on August 16, 2016, 02:41:26 AM

Quote from: little joe on July 22, 2016, 11:33:53 PM
Every builder and every shooter should have the best they can afford as long as it is safe. I have shot 45 years and have saw some National contenders shoot some pretty ugly stuff. They would wipe your arse and send you home in a heart beat. One a school teacher from S. ILL. was in the top contenders at Friendship. His workmanship was sub standard but his shooting was super.

Little Joe,
Would the shooter from So Ill happen to be J L Hargis? Back 35 + - years ago I competed regularly in So Ill and So Indiana matches, J L would show up with a floppy leather hat and a gun that the stock split from the breach to the muzzle and held together by Red Grey Yellow Black and any color tape he could find he also taped a few chunks of lead to the stock " We called them "J L shooting stabilizers", He brought an old small rusty tool box complete with a claw hammer with one of the claws broken off to start the balls a rusty can of powder and a few cluttered essentials and preceded to clean everybody's clock and is still winning his share of the matches at Friendship today !! He wore out something like 4 H&H barrels and 3 or so " Haddaway locks" ? However the triggers broke crisp and the lock was tuned to perfection!! The gun looked like a piece of junk and If you would see it at a flea market at first glance you would not have given $25.00 for it!!Talk about playing mind games with other shooters he was the KING!!

Yes that is the gentleman.

flinchrocket · « **Reply #72 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:08:46 AM »

Little Joe,did you go up and comment on his fine group after his 4th shot?

little joe · « **Reply #73 on:** August 16, 2016, 11:12:03 PM »

Dave R did you ever shoot the Levi Garrett at Patoka Valley? That is where I met J.L.

Standing Bear · « **Reply #74 on:** August 18, 2016, 06:49:10 AM »

Saw JL at a match in My View Arkansas 25 or so years ago. His infamous ugly rifle looked like he'd it for a fire poker. I was still shooting per-suction then and managed to win against JL, Carl Hagler, Tom Gillman, Jim Luke, Dewey Conrad, Jeff Dobson, Harry Goldman and others. Heck of a match. A couple of us were reminiscing a few months ago when JL's gun was mentioned. Still remember that hammer w one claw broke off.

As Bob Hope said "Thanks for the memories"
TC

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Author Topic: Are we more worried about looks as opposed to performance? (Read 27340 times)

nosrettap1958

nosrettap1958

Smoketown

yardhunter

Hadden West