Author Topic: jaeger update{pics} (Read 16353 times)

lew wetzel · « **on:** March 30, 2009, 08:08:50 PM »

i had gotten alot of questions on saturday about the jaeger..as i told most of you at the log cabin i wasnt very happy with the wrist area..i cut to much off the profile when i bandsawed it...now i am stuck with what i got and just have to make the best out of it...so here are a couple pics of what i was talking about ....
i am almost done with the building phase...everything is where its going and it dry fires very nice.now on to the final shaping and embellishment.

rich pierce · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:53:30 AM »

I'd say your inletting skills are very good. I don't see gaps around the lock or buttplate for example. So you can do very careful work. You might slow down a little especially at the beginning because the direction you take at the beginning of a journey often has a big role in determining where you will end up. It's worthwhile to spend as much time in layout and in getting your layout checked out by an experienced builder before you get going with a bandsaw.

I'd try to work on a couple of areas. I'd inlet the buttplate return (top part) deeper.

The lock as it is positioned makes it look like you've got a very thick fore-end. Check to see where your ramrod hole is and see if you can take 1/4" off the bottom of the fore-end. If you can it will slim things down nicely. You would be surprised how slim a fore-end can be on a jaeger. Even if that makes it so you have to make a new entry thimble with less rise to the skirt, fine, do that.

That particular lock is difficult to position because it is SO banana-shaped. Sometimes the tail does not fall on the wrist as you may like. I had a real challenge the one time I used that lock. At one time it was the only "jaeger" lock available, so we had to use it if we wanted something really early. Now we've seen enough originals to realize that's a very early design and not that common. Mine sparked well though. Be careful removing the mainspring because the spring works mostly iin the last part of the arm.

The trigger bar looks like it's sticking out in the middle. Maybe that's where the bandsaw got hungry? Turn off the bandsaw. That will teach it. I'd give it some quiet time. It is possible to do all that work w/o a bandsaw.

If you can take some wood off the bottom of the fore-end, it can change the wrist as well and maybe you can bend the trigger plate to match the curve of the wrist and bring the whole thing up a little. You want a much gentler step to a step-wristed gun, nornally, though there is a lot of variation.

Just my ideas.

Flinter · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:35:47 AM »

Hey lew, what's that lying on the table in the third pic?

Just kidding. I cannot imagine anyone having the patients to build a rifle.
Everything looks fine so far. What caliber is it?

Mike

lew wetzel · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:49:55 AM »

rich,thanks for all the great insight...i left the buttplate return standing proud for a reason..them banana locks are a real pain,this was my first build from a blank...maybe i should have built something with straighter lines first.cant bend the trigger bar and cant inlet it any deeper..so i am stuck with it the way it is...and im not happy about it...my next build from a blank i wont cut so much wood before i have all the parts inlet..it fires very nice and everything is working the way it should so i will leave the wrist area alone and start shaping the forend...
mike,the jaeger is a 62cal,35in barrel..has davis lock,davis trigger set,davis furniture.and the book is to help me build my next forge because im tired of buying parts and want to get away from brass mounted rifles and start building iron mounted rifles....

Tommy Bruce · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:38:50 AM »

Chris, I think you need to start doing Iron mounts too. That way I'll have a place to get handforged furniture

. Hey I got the pics by e-mail but I'll just comment here. I think your inletting looks good and will agree that the banana lock is a tough one to shape the stock around. Each one keeps getting better.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:13:28 PM »

thanks tommy,after i fire up the forge and make a couple sets i will send you one...when we getting out in the woods!!!man i got cabin fever...

Flinter · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2009, 04:08:23 AM »

The book comment was just a little humor lew.

It looks like a lot of you guys are gun builders.
I hope I am not out of place here, but I do have piles of questions.
Keep us up to date, because I am interested is seeing how it turnes out.

Mike

Quote from: lew wetzel on March 31, 2009, 03:49:55 AM

rich,thanks for all the great insight...i left the buttplate return standing proud for a reason..them banana locks are a real pain,this was my first build from a blank...maybe i should have built something with straighter lines first.cant bend the trigger bar and cant inlet it any deeper..so i am stuck with it the way it is...and im not happy about it...my next build from a blank i wont cut so much wood before i have all the parts inlet..it fires very nice and everything is working the way it should so i will leave the wrist area alone and start shaping the forend...
mike,the jaeger is a 62cal,35in barrel..has davis lock,davis trigger set,davis furniture.and the book is to help me build my next forge because im tired of buying parts and want to get away from brass mounted rifles and start building iron mounted rifles....

lew wetzel · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2009, 06:26:01 AM »

mike,this is the right place for questions!!!i always like to keep the board updated on my builds....each one gets alittle better!!!

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2009, 04:04:04 PM »

I'd definitely glue some wood into that wrist and reshape it. You need to take a ton more wood off of the buttstock in general with keeping round with no square edges foremost in your thoughts. That lock panel needs alot of refining to.....also inlet the trigger guard and take about a 1/4 to 3/8" of wood off both the top and bottom of the forestock. Then it will be PERFECT!

Dave B · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2009, 09:57:10 PM »

Lew,
You are a brave man jumping in on a Jaeger rifle early on. The style you have chosen is a tough nut to crack. I see there is a rifle in Shumways collection of Jaeger rifles from Muzzle blasts that looks very much like yours. Like what has already been mentioned it helps to have the plan all drawn out and transferred to the wood. Know where you want to end up and give your self a good 1/4" clearance. My problem is I draw it out then don't keep on the lines. I have had a few of those bandsaw slips my self. What I see Mike talking about makes some sense when looking at the bottom of the wrist area. After reviewing both my Jaeger books it looks like you have left the downward sweep from the forearm too the butt wrist transition to late. If you start this transition earlier it would bring the tail of the lock more towards the mid line of the wrist. A good percentage of Jagger's with this heavy banana shaped lock actually have the plate pan tipped down in reference to the center line of the barrel. I you were to draw a line from the lowest point of the tail of the lock to the leading bottom section under the feather spring (frizzen spring) it is parallel to the bore axis or very close to it. I have this same lock on a Jaeger project that I have yet to finish and as you can see its position is more toward the center of the wrist. I think if you did choose to inlet the chunk of wood it would require to move this area forward you would have a better looking shape. you should also tip the tail of the set trigger down and not make that step quite so big. You may want to just continue to shape it all out finishing it up and chalk it up to experience and do the next one with the insite of what you've learned. You cant expect things to be exactly perfect when doing this kind of stuff the most important thing is to learn and improve. I see some guys work and the tenth rifle looks just like the first one and he is happy as a clam with just doing them all that way. You by asking will improve what you are going to do in the future. This project of mine was started about 9 years ago it seems. Poser mounts from the Rifle Shoppe, Getz .54 cal D wt barrel

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2009, 09:52:10 AM »

I think there are times you chalk up the work to experience and good practice. Were it mine I believe I would get another piece of wood and start again because looking at some of those problems for years would inevitably bring about that result anyway.

Rolf · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2009, 01:07:46 PM »

Quote from: lew wetzel on March 30, 2009, 08:08:50 PM

i wasnt very happy with the wrist area..i cut to much off the profile when i bandsawed it...now i am stuck with what i got and just have to make the best out of it...

I cut my blanks to the exact profile. No extra wood, no slip ups or mistakes.
It's easy if you use a router with a pattern bit.

Make an exact ply wood pattern of the stock profile.
Trace the pattern on stock blank and rough it out on the bandsaw. Stay 1/8" outside the lines.
Tape the pattern to the rough cut blank with carpet tape. Use a router with a pattern bit to trace around the plywood pattern and remove extra wood.

Best regards

Rofkt

[/list]

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2009, 03:27:34 PM »

Some clarification....If I had to fix that wrist I'd fill in the whole area from the step forward. Make some square stop cuts at either end of the repair, flatten and square up the area where the triggers are and glue in a mongo piece of wood with some epoxy, That way you can get the smooth curve your after and get the rear finial of the trigger guard back on wood. Also, next time you do a Euro gun consider walnut, I always have found maple on Euro guns hard to look at.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2009, 09:56:31 PM »

dave b...there is a fine line between brave and stupid...not sure which one i am yet...i appreciate all the comments...i fiqured someone would throw me under the bus for using maple...lol...i build to suit me and me only...some of you fellas remind me of the "stitch counters"on the historic trekking boards....

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:13:44 PM »

I think there are many euro guns inmaple. Quite a few in Steinschloss are maple. Consider how scarce wood was in Europe, and then when the wood started coming in from the colonies, what a fad that would have been.

Chris, you are fine using maple, in my opinion.

I am curious to see where you go from here, if you splice, or work it as is.

Just a note, the Euros salvaged many a stock by splicing and patching. Have no fear. I can provide you with photos of patches done in the stock as the gun was being built, not as later repairs.

Acer

lew wetzel · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:23:43 PM »

thanks tom,all the jaegers i have seen in the books and dvd you sent me i think mine has taken on a dutch look...this was a very challenging build for my first blank...on page 136 in the jaeger book from shumway there is a rifle that has a monster carved into the forward butt area and looks like its devouring the wrist...great inspiration for where i want to take this build...

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:34:17 PM »

i did this one in western maple...very hard and heavy maple - decent figure. same lock, triggers and guard as yours, chris.
drawings and blueprint profile before cutting are crucial. don't give up. make it right.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:40:56 PM »

Chris, that 'monster gun' belongs to the Met. It's in their collection, but not on display. Shumway visited the Met twenty years ago to photo it for his jaeger articles. the curator said I was the next person to look at it after him.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:48:42 PM »

so what are you waiting for tom....or is it a 25year wait to see it...would really like to see some detailed pics of that baby...

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:49:23 PM »

Lookat all the patches fitted into place, they did it, you can too. Pratt does it. EK does it. I do it. Don't be shy. Do the best you can.

Pic of the grotesque. This is brilliant. This is the only example I know of with the monster at the comb/wrist. Later on(18th Cent), you see a lot of German shotguns and rifles with masks at the end of the pistol grip of the stocks. Or a duck's head or a boar, or Centurion, depending whether it's a shotgun or a rifle.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:50:17 PM »

funny how things work.......

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:51:27 PM »

Note the sling attachment. It's not a button, but a loop with pivot, screwed to the underside of the stock.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #22 on:** April 06, 2009, 12:10:03 AM »

tom,that is soooooooo cool...i love that gun...i was thinking about trying to do this carving..i want to practice this on something else first...and i really appreciate you posting that pic...you are the man!!!!!

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2009, 12:16:38 AM »

Certainly marvelous work. Thanks for the photos Tom. No doubt the inspiration for this design of a beast devouring the wrist came from the design prints published by DeLaCollombe in 1705. If you have Lenks book check it out.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2009, 12:23:11 AM »

Chris: practice by drawing first. This does several things.
a) firms your design up in your mind, you will edit it until it's good
b) trains your mind and hand together
c) the familiarity with the design will help tremendously when you start carving

Another really helpful trick is the sculpt your design in modeling clay. This gives you a sense of proportion and depth of relief that you cannot get on paper. You get a feel for the different surface planes, and how they relate to each other. This will be of tremendous help when taking the wood off.

Oh if you take off too much wood, ahem, you get pretty upset. If you take off too much clay, you can just add some and reconfigure the surface.

Acer

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Author Topic: jaeger update{pics} (Read 16353 times)

lew wetzel

Flinter

lew wetzel

lew wetzel

Flinter

lew wetzel

lew wetzel

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lew wetzel