Author Topic: Cleaning with starter fluid  (Read 13680 times)

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2017, 10:18:47 PM »
I pee in mine, read that's how the Mountainy Mens did it.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2017, 11:22:03 PM »
The machine oil mix allows continuous shooting with minimal fouling, also it keeps the residue soft for up to a week.[./b]

Soft for up to a week - YIKES!

As to minimal fouling, if the ball and patch combination is similar to ours, there is no fouling in the bore, shot to shot. Only that single shot's fouling, which is removed next time the gun is loaded.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 11:27:57 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline WaterFowl

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2017, 11:47:37 PM »
I have tried this a few times, and each time I have been able to clean a bore in less than 5 minutes.  I spray a good bit of starter fluid down the barrel, push it down with a patched jag quickly to blow fouling out of the vent hole.  Then keep using patches soaked in it, alternating with dry patches.   I finish by drying the bore with several dry patches, then lube with an oil-soaked patch.

Bottom line... after shooting a .40 flintlock all afternoon, I was able to clean it in about 5 minutes.  After a few hours, I just ran a clean dry patch down and it came out white.

I also took the lock off and sprayed it with starter fluid, wiped it down, and lubed with a suitable oil (Ballistol, Lehigh, etc).

Just thought I'd share this with you all, as it seems to be a very effective alternative.   I know... everyone has their method they like, but I'm just throwing this out there, for those who may want an easy alternative to running water down the bore.

Please don't blow anything up!....
use a bronze bore brush and a breach scraper then water..
I do not soften my tap water...and had flash rusting if I used hot water.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2017, 05:45:57 AM »
Interesting, I have never used a breech scraper as I never have had an accumulation of powder on the breech that needed scraping.
My barrels ALWAYS come off to clean them - they are CLEAN- be breech scraping, no fouling left in patent breeches - NP ever & no rust.
Daryl

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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2017, 07:33:53 AM »
I also think the breech scraper is yet another worthless gizmo designed to fill up your shooting bag. I have never found an accumulation of fouling  son the breech face.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Kermit

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2017, 08:48:10 AM »
Water, water, water, water, water, water,water,water,water. So, what part of this is unclear to you?

   Hungry Horse

Exactly.
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Offline bones92

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2017, 02:08:32 PM »
Hanshi...what make and model tap do you use?

 ;)  :o  ;D
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Online hanshi

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2017, 06:03:40 PM »
I pee in mine, read that's how the Mountainy Mens did it.



Mike, I think it's time you look into indoor plumbing.  ::)


Oh, and bones92, in answer to your question: city.  8)


An excellent use for a scraper, I've found, is to push a wet patch down to the breech and use the scraper to turn it and clean the plug recesses.  I often scrape before cleaning but rarely is anything there to come out.
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Offline deepcreekdale

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2017, 07:38:55 PM »
I also think the breech scraper is yet another worthless gizmo designed to fill up your shooting bag. I have never found an accumulation of fouling  son the breech face.

  Hungry Horse

Is it pretty dry where you live in California? I live in Florida where it can get, shall we say "humid" and if I shoot a longer match (> 25 shots), I do find the breech face getting pretty gummy and fouled. If not periodically addressed, I have seen fouling actually accumulate past the touch hole in some flintlocks and past the nipple for cap guns. I have never seen this problem in the dryer, winter months.
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2017, 08:21:49 PM »
That could be it, maybe you don't need a breech scraper at all, just luggage. I visited South Carolina, some years ago, and can't figure out how they ever fought wars with muzzleloaders there in the summer.

  Hungry Horse

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2017, 09:20:42 PM »
That could be it, maybe you don't need a breech scraper at all, just luggage. I visited South Carolina, some years ago, and can't figure out how they ever fought wars with muzzleloaders there in the summer.

  Hungry Horse

Not wanting to hijack this thread but your comment makes me wonder if, or how, the BP that was used back in the day (US Civil War for example) differed from what we use today?  Specifically Goex.

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2017, 09:37:41 PM »
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.

Nearest modern thing to that used in Mr. Lincoln's war is Swiss. I think it even burns red

However, I bow to Mad Monk's comments.

Offline little joe

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2017, 09:51:24 PM »
Southern Indiana has  a lot of humidity and I have helped several shooters who were lubing with some of animal fat, bees wax mixture and a couple guys using commercial lube. They were wiping between shots and every wipe they were shoving the crud down on the face of the plug. In a few shots they had a cookie built up on the face of the plug blocking the touch hole and leading to miss fires and hang fires when did go off. This was line shooting and I converted these guys over to saliva and there shooting improved a lot. Do not want to argue lubes but this what we have to deal with here, and is why we do not use a lot of 2f powder as it makes more dirt.

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2017, 10:53:57 PM »
I never used starter fluid, that's the same stuff they used to put me to sleep, when my tonsils were removed at age 5, (ether).  I have used carburetor cleaner, its much less volatile and works fine.  I keep a can in my range box, for use while I am still at the range.  Keep yer powder dry..........robin  8)

Offline Frank

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2017, 12:00:29 AM »
Why would anybody pay for a solution to clean black powder when there is plenty of water for free?

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2017, 12:20:18 AM »
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.

Nearest modern thing to that used in Mr. Lincoln's war is Swiss. I think it even burns red

However, I bow to Mad Monk's comments.

"And the rockets red glare"  Well what we had there was the fact that the Brits used wheel mills with limestone wheels (rollers).  As they ground the ingredients small amounts of the limestone (calcium carbonate) would wear off the wheels and end up in the powder.  Then when the powder was burned in the gun the calcium would give a bright red color to the incandescent gases leaving the barrel.  So when you look at old paintings from the F&I War or Rev War the red muzzle flairs seen in the paintings were real.

If you make a black powder with high purity potassium nitrate and a low ash content charcoal you can expect to see a violet color flair at low light.  Found that out one night when I sort of blew up the wife's Lupine garden in front of the back deck.  But I did have about a week of quiet after that.  And the following year the Lupines came back very well.

Offline Hank*in*WV

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2017, 12:21:45 AM »
Wouldn't carb cleaner and starting fluid affect the rifle finish?
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2017, 01:06:50 AM »
Why would anybody pay for a solution to clean black powder when there is plenty of water for free?

Some folks even pay for water metered into their homes.  I pump mine from deep in the ground. But also the rain bbl collects truly free water (but for some western states where rainwater collection is prohibited).

Graywater would work too...   :P
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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2017, 01:21:06 AM »
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.

Nearest modern thing to that used in Mr. Lincoln's war is Swiss. I think it even burns red

However, I bow to Mad Monk's comments.

Got it!  But, were the powders back then less effected by humidity than what we use today?  Or less....?

"And the rockets red glare"  Well what we had there was the fact that the Brits used wheel mills with limestone wheels (rollers).  As they ground the ingredients small amounts of the limestone (calcium carbonate) would wear off the wheels and end up in the powder.  Then when the powder was burned in the gun the calcium would give a bright red color to the incandescent gases leaving the barrel.  So when you look at old paintings from the F&I War or Rev War the red muzzle flairs seen in the paintings were real.

If you make a black powder with high purity potassium nitrate and a low ash content charcoal you can expect to see a violet color flair at low light.  Found that out one night when I sort of blew up the wife's Lupine garden in front of the back deck.  But I did have about a week of quiet after that.  And the following year the Lupines came back very well.

Offline iloco

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2017, 01:32:16 AM »
Has anyone ever used Ballistol for cleaning their rifle.....?
iloco

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2017, 02:46:58 AM »
Polecat, the answer is YES. Ever wonder about that line " . . . and the rocket's red glare . . ." when all the powder flashes you have seen were orange? 19th century guys used a more pure grade of saltpeter than used today, at least in the USA. The best American powder of that period was made in Augusta, Georgia. Allegedly du Pont made sure that mill ceased to function after April, 1865. Augusta made better powder than did that mill on the Brandywine.


Got it!  But, were the powders back then less effected by humidity than what we use today?  Or less....?



Depends on the time period in question and who made the powders.

Another point here is relative to "what we use today".

If you look at GOEX made between 1972 and 2000 you see a black powder that was considerably more hygroscopic than old powders.  They used a poor grade of potassium nitrate that contained some sodium nitrate.

High purity potassium nitrate is only very mildly sensitive to moisture in the air.  How the powder behaves with changes in relative humidity is going to depend on how pure it is.  A 99.9% pure potassium nitrate picks up only minute amounts of water from the air until the relative humidity reaches 92%.  That is it's critical point.  At 92% R.H. it begins to pick up moisture from the air.  At 100% it should only pick up 1.6%, by weight, of water from the air.  C&H once used that weight increase at 92% R.H. as a QC test on their potassium nitrate supply.  With the old GOEX made with the Vicksburg Chemical Company potassium nitrate the total weight increase at 99 to 100% R.H. was 16%, not 1.6%.

The powders we have now at this time are all made with a high purity potassium nitrate and are not noted for getting very damp when exposed to humid air.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2017, 04:06:36 AM »
Iloco I use Balistol after I clean with water. Don't see any reason why you can't. To me the stuff is awesome.  IMHO...Mike

Offline bones92

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2017, 04:58:54 AM »
Has anyone ever used Ballistol for cleaning their rifle.....?

Yes, regularly.   But mainly once I've cleaned most of the fouling out first.

And I store BP arms with a good coat of Ballistol,  too.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 05:00:22 AM by bones92 »
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Offline Dave R

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2017, 05:34:49 AM »
I am a believer in room temp water for cleaning!! In some conditions a bottom scraper is very handy and sometimes used!I like the touchhole cleaner clamp after I have replaced the oring with a faucet washer. The water soluble oil hydrogen peroxide and alcohol discussesd previously is an excellent cleaner however I ruined a barrel back in the day using TOO MUCH PEROXIDE!! It never shot well after that!! And alwalys use  oil with whatever oil you use come back the next day or two and run an oily patch down the barrel to reduce rust.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Cleaning with starter fluid
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2017, 05:58:58 AM »
For that matter, black powder is an explosive.


I figured most people had a can of starting fluid around,  for when a mower or other small engine needs coaxing.

BP does not vaporize and spread widely and invisibly. One does not normally scatter BP all over the shop.

Dan
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