Black powder load for 16 gauge

[webradbury]

Well, I must report success with fitting breech plugs to my double barrel project. I'm currently fitting the tang and will be in position to proof the barrels in the coming weeks. I have never handled BP shotguns and was wondering what a normal powder charge would be. Of course I have to double th charge to proof. Will

[L. Akers]

The markings on a modern shotshell are in black powder equivalents.  A standard load for a 16 ga would be 70 grs. (2-1/2 drams) black powder and 1 ounce of shot.  These amounts can be adjusted up and down as determined by shooting at a pattern board.  I made a 16 double flint several years ago and lucked out by getting a set of unchambered barrels, so I didn't have to make the long, chamber-filling threaded plugs.

[jerrywh]

If you go to the GOEX powder web site they have black powder loads listed for all shotguns.
http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/MLSS.pdf

[kutter]

For general use in the field and shooting at clay targets, BP shotgun loads can be done easily by using equal VOLUME of BP and shot.

Using the same volume measure you use for the shot,,what ever you choose to load,,say 7/8 oz scoop measure.
Use that same scoop measure to load that volume of BP in that load.
You don't have to be concerned with how much it weighs (unless that sort of thing bothers you). Just use that same volume of BP,,then the correct wads, then the same volume of shot.

Yes you can increase the load as needed in small increments to adjust to your needs (patterning, power, range, ect). But for a starter load they work just fine and will break clay targets on a skeet field or out of a hand trap all day long for you.

Keeps it simple,,the way the sport is supposed to be.

[Daryl]

I now use a 10 gr. difference in power measures when loading powder and shot in my 20 bore.

That means normally a 75gr. measure of 2f powder, then wads, then 85gr. measure of shot.

That is equivalent to 75gr. (2 3/4 drams) of 2f and 1 1/4ox. to 1 3/16's Oz shot. - then over powder thin card.

This load REALLY smokes clay birds.

For a 16 bore, I would increase this to an 80 gr. (3drams) measure of 2F and 90gr.(1 1/4oz) measure of shot. 

100gr. measure of 2F will hold approx. 1 3/8oz shot.

[Standing Bear]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/299923/

Try this link.

[Mike Brooks]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/299923/

Try this link.

Looks like you can't see the link if you've been banned from that site or otherwise R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

[Standing Bear]

Says it is Goex's  chart so should b available elsewhere.
TC

[JBJ]

Try http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/MLSS.pdf

J.B.

[sonny]

I thought a 2 oz load of #5's with 100 grains of powder would be the hot setup, as they use more shot in a 20 gauge smoothie with 75 gr's 2f??sonny

[Daryl]

I thought a 2 oz load of #5's with 100 grains of powder would be the hot setup, as they use more shot in a 20 gauge smoothie with 75 gr's 2f??sonny

Who is THEY, Sonny.

2 ounces with only 75gr. (2 3/4 drams) - might make 700fps = maybe?

[Mike Brooks]

I thought a 2 oz load of #5's with 100 grains of powder would be the hot setup, as they use more shot in a 20 gauge smoothie with 75 gr's 2f??sonny

Who is THEY, Sonny.

2 ounces with only 75gr. (2 3/4 drams) - might make 700fps = maybe?

2 oz is really a whole bunch of shot for a 20 bore. I might give that whirl in a 16 but probably not a 20.

[Daryl]

I use 1 1/4oz to 1 3/16" shot with 75gr. 2F - those are heavy 20 bore loads to me.  They sure dust clay birds.

[sonny]

well I finally made it to the range to pattern my 16 gauge smoothie. I tried my first load with 90 gr-2f,then two over shot cards, tucked inside a four roll brown butchers paper cup I made,  followed with 2 oz of #5, then one more over shot card........My god! when I touched that sucker off, what a jolt that sucker was to my shoulder an cheek.....at 40 yards I had a group that was 4' wide by 4' high......geez I got a lot to learn!!!! I thought when I looked at that group. 80 grs-2f then 70 grains 2f, an at 30 yards I could hit a turkey head target with about 10 pellets. I tried 65 grs-2f with 12 gauge wonder felt wad(I didn't have 16 gauge)over the powder(it worked?!?!), then a 12 roll butcher paper shot wad that ended up .600 outside diameter (I rolled it with a slightly smaller dowel). I then coated my paper wad with wonder lube to slide it down the barrel with the pointy end of my ramrod, to sit on the felt wonder wad. 1 1/4 oz of #5 which I premeasured the  paper tube to be filled to its edge with the shot. I then put a felt wonder wad on top of the load. I was able to hit the turkey head target, at 30yrds with 22 hits on the head an neck, the most hits I had with my experimental loads.....would 1 oz work better? would using a heavy powder card-fiber wad- heavy paper shot cup-thin over powder card make it better? is 65 grs enough umpfff to slay a turkeysorus at 30 yards? I honestly don't know. I wish somebody could tell me what I might be doing wrong to speed up this learning curve. I do think that a greased paper shot wad made in thicker material, to launch the shot column, straight an tight to the target has merit. Anybody out there can shed light on my loads.....I'm all ears!!!.....sonny

[Mike Brooks]

There is no way to speed up the learning curve that I know of. I have found out everybody loads these differently to get good results. Personally I'd never use any kind of shot cup, I've experimented with them and got poor results, others do well with them. Do a search here, there are oodles of threads with load information.

[sonny]

Mike, I hate to buy 1000 over powder heavy cards, an 1000 fiber wads, to just try out a few loads for improved density. Is there someplace to buy a couple hundred to try the mix?..........Mike, what kind of group do you get at 30 yrds with all the heavy powder cards/fiber wads/ an thin over shot card?...........sonny

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, I hate to buy 1000 over powder heavy cards, an 1000 fiber wads, to just try out a few loads for improved density. Is there someplace to buy a couple hundred to try the mix?..........Mike, what kind of group do you get at 30 yrds with all the heavy powder cards/fiber wads/ an thin over shot card?...........sonny

All my own personal shotguns I have used to seriously shoot tight patterns have been jugged. They shoot tight patterns loaded just about any way you want.
 That being said, with cylinder bored guns I find powder, 1/8" hard card,Lubed 3/8" felt wad, shot, then over shot card usually works. I have had cylinder bored guns that will shoot all that stuff with a 1/2 of a fiber wad instead of a 3/8" felt. I have also had some that shoot well with a full fiber wad. Barrel length makes quite a difference too as does a patent breech. I have always had a difficult time getting short barrels to shoot good patterns...unless they're jugged.
 BTW, I literally have 10's of thousands of wads of all gauges....happens after you have messed with ML shotguns for 37+ years.
 Google "Mike's shotgun wads" . they may sell small quantities, I don't know.
 Now, probably everybody is going to jump me over the way I load....and that's OK. I have often marveled at what folks here get to work.

Also, for wild fowling or turkey hunting I would recommend heavy loads, other things I hunt I load much lighter. I most always load #4's for all hunting. Most any games like skeet I load light. I had a 18 bore I could grind skeet with that was 5/8oz......smasher of a load.

[Mauser06]

Like Mike said, there's really no shortcut.  Sounds like you found a decent load...But 65gr of 2f and all that shot....I question. The "turkey test" is a normal can that soup or baked beans etc comes in. Not a light can. If the pellets penetrate it's supposed to be enough to do the job on a turkey.


There are countless combinations you can come up with...Different powders, charges, shot sizes, type of shot, wads...You can shoot different wad combos forever and not cover all the bases...Buffer..Types of buffer..Overshot cards or something heavier over the shot.  It's endless. 


The only wad I've never gotten some kind of decent pattern from is the 1/2" fiber cushion wads. But to be fair, I haven't tried them as much as others. 


Hard nitro cards are the shocker for me.  In 2 different barrels I've had loads that worked well with them and "by the rules" it shouldn't because it's hard and heavy.


What I'd do is order the real thin overshot cards, 1/16" wool wads, and nitro wads. You can stack the nitros and the wool wads. That kinda covers many of the bases. You can adjust by how many wads and type of was etc. 


After shooting countless loads from 2 different barrels...Well, same barrel but 2 different choke designs, I am still amazed at something that seems like a completely minor change makes a huge difference.  It's crazy to me. 

And every barrel is different.  The diameter, etc etc vary and so do the "rules". 

[sonny]

Thanks for the tip guy's............guess I take your advice an try your turkey killer mix's..............sonny

[Daryl]

well I finally made it to the range to pattern my 16 gauge smoothie. I tried my first load with 90 gr-2f,then two over shot cards, tucked inside a four roll brown butchers paper cup I made,  followed with 2 oz of #5, then one more over shot card........My god! when I touched that sucker off, what a jolt that sucker was to my shoulder an cheek.....at 40 yards I had a group that was 4' wide by 4' high......geez I got a lot to learn!!!! I thought when I looked at that group. 80 grs-2f then 70 grains 2f, an at 30 yards I could hit a turkey head target with about 10 pellets. I tried 65 grs-2f with 12 gauge wonder felt wad(I didn't have 16 gauge)over the powder(it worked?!?!), then a 12 roll butcher paper shot wad that ended up .600 outside diameter (I rolled it with a slightly smaller dowel). I then coated my paper wad with wonder lube to slide it down the barrel with the pointy end of my ramrod, to sit on the felt wonder wad. 1 1/4 oz of #5 which I premeasured the  paper tube to be filled to its edge with the shot. I then put a felt wonder wad on top of the load. I was able to hit the turkey head target, at 30yrds with 22 hits on the head an neck, the most hits I had with my experimental loads.....would 1 oz work better? would using a heavy powder card-fiber wad- heavy paper shot cup-thin over powder card make it better? is 65 grs enough umpfff to slay a turkeysorus at 30 yards? I honestly don't know. I wish somebody could tell me what I might be doing wrong to speed up this learning curve. I do think that a greased paper shot wad made in thicker material, to launch the shot column, straight an tight to the target has merit. Anybody out there can shed light on my loads.....I'm all ears!!!.....sonny

You have to balance your load to your needs.  If using 80gr. of 2F  gave you 10 pellet hits on a turkey's head at 30 yards with your combination, I would say your experimenting was about finished and you need to do, if you need to do anything further, is to double check for consistent patters, shot to shot.

[Mike Brooks]

One note of caution, if you're going to shoot the big loads that I and others have mentioned make sure your gun is well constructed. With the amount of recoil involved I'd pay particular attention to the grain structure in the wrist. i have seen guns break through the wrist with rather stout loads. Not to mention that kind of recoil will rattle your marbles. I think a few of my marbles were lost permanently doing load work up on the "magnum" end.

[sonny]

Mike, honestly!..................I WILL NEVER SHOOT 2OZ LOAD OUT OF MY SMOOTHIE AGAIN!!!!!.....The way it shoved me back at ignition an the slap to the cheek, made me a believer. No turkey is worth that kind load to shoot out of my smoothbore...I never tried a 1oz load with it or maybe 1 1/8, but will wait an get the heavy powder card, an fiber wads to try again. I hope I can get at least 20 hits on a turkey head target at 30 yrds with my second try............75 grs seem like enough umpff mike?.......sonny

[Mike Brooks]

I never measure powder by grains with shotguns as I'm using an old timey dipper, so I don't know how much 75gr is. I recently patterned a customer's 20 bore turkey masher with 1 3/8oz shot and 1 1/4oz 2ff powder (MEASURED WITH DIPPER, NOT ACTUAL WEIGHT OF POWDER) I "think" that's 3 drams of powder.....just a guess, don't have my dipper in hand at the moment. The recoil was tolerable as I built it for shooting heavy loads. 1/58oz could probably have been shot in that gun, but I'm sure you'd start to get ouchy with that load.

[sonny]

Mike, where the heck did you find #4 shot?.........sonnyboy

[Robby]

I've been hunting and shooting trap with a 16 Ga. for at least ten years. For turkey I use 80gr. FF, 1-1/2 oz. #4, #6 shot mix, not because I think it is more effective, but a guy gave me a two liter bottle of it, haven't lost a bird with it yet though. Trap, I use 60 gr. FF and 1-1/2 oz. #8 shot, just have to aim higher, lead more. Geese, same as turkey, only with #2, #4 Bismuth shot.
Robby