Priming powder

[Don Adams]

I've been shooting in our club's black powder league and usually I use 4F for priming for my .40. I had forgotten to take it one evening, so I used the 3f that I use for my normal charge.  I found that the 3F worked better than the 4F when it came to the number of shots per flint. Now maybe the difference was just in the flint, but the very first night of the league I was able to fire all 15 shots with one flint. When I took the 4F and used it, I had to go through two flints to get all 15 shots in that night. So this past week I tried the 3F again and I was able to get all 15 shots off again with one flint. I did notice that the oily residue using the 4F was more prevalent and was less when using 3F.  Again, don't know if humidity was a factor - it is kind of hard to tell here in Ohio and it being a summer league - humidity is always present it seems.
Anyone else find they do better with 3F as opposed to 4F?  Life of flints lasting longer? 

[Hungry Horse]

Fifteen shots from a flint. If I only was getting fifteen shots per flint, I'd trade my old flinter in on a slingshot. You must not be knapping the flint when it gets dull.
 At a public outreach event my gun club sponsored last year, I ran the muzzleloading bench. My old flintlock shot sixty four shots with one flint. I did two quick knapping jobs on it during the event. It had zero misfires, and only a couple of  Hangfires.

    Hungry Horse

[nosrettap1958]

I'm not going to believe in any way shape or form that 3Fg is better than 4Fg in the pan. It may be more convenient in the woods while hunting but is it better, no way. 

[Hungry Horse]

 I only have one gun that I use 4F in the pan, and it's a target rifle. All the others I use 3F. I actually believe I get better ignition with 3F. Hunting in the field, I wouldn't even consider using 4F. Even in dry weather it wicks up moisture.

  Hungry Horse

[ranger76]

Don I don't believe that 4f or 3F have anything to do with the number of shots per flint. I believe your frissen is slapping down on your Flint and breaking it after every shot. There are wright ups on here about that only I don't know how to find them, I am sure some one on this site will.

[Dennis Glazener]

Fifteen shots from a flint. If I only was getting fifteen shots per flint, I'd trade my old flinter in on a slingshot. You must not be knapping the flint when it gets dull.

I don't think not knapping the flint is the problem. I have never knapped a flint in my life and I easily go 40 to 50 shots with the same flint, maybe more since I don't count them. This is with Chambers Siler lock on one rifle and Chambers Late Ketland on the other.

I have had problems with some other locks but it normally was breaking flints not wearing them out.
Dennis

[hanshi]

If the flints are of good quality, I usually get 25 or 30 shots (sometimes more) before any knapping is called for.  Rather than knapp on the first dud "clack", I normally just wipe the flint edge off or scrape the edge with a piece of metal which yields several more shots.  After that I knapp the flint.  This way I've often gotten 50 to 100 or so shots from the flint.  Yes, I do have to move it forward a time or two; I use a flint until it simply won't stay in the cock.  I prime with 4F but have used 3F some and can tell no difference at the range or in the bush.  The only problem I have is that the blast from the vent hole does dull and polish the corner of the flint next to the barrel.  This is often the cause of the flint needing knapping.

Most of my locks are direct from Chambers and behave no differently from the other locks.  In fact, the most reliable and flint friendly lock I own is a Siler NOT built at Chambers.  A good lock is a good lock regardless of provenance.

[retired fella]

To each his own on 3f vs 4f.  But 15 shots  from one flint is an excessive waste of rocks in MHO.   We can get into a whole new conversation bevel up/down, etc.   On a new flint, before I start whacking at it I put the flint on the bottom surface of the frizzen and with thumb pressure drag it backwards up the frizzen which will break off minute crumbs sharpening the stone without radical knapping.  That can be done later when dragging doesn't do the deed.  I have two Silers and it seems to do the trick.  Typically I get 75-100 per flint.

[Don Adams]

I'm finding the flint breaks off. So it is a frizzen problem then?  Is the frizzen too tight and doesn't move freely enough?

[Hungry Horse]

Usually the frizzen rebounds and slaps the flint, breaking the working edge off. The high tech fix involves making adjustments to the frizzen, as well as adjusting the spring tension, to limit the bounce back. The cheap, and dirty, way many old timers stopped the bounce back, was to file the frizzen toe back so the frizzen travels farther forward. This creates an over cramming situation that stops the bounce back before it makes contact with the flint.

 Hungry Horse

[Standing Bear]

Agree w others prime used won't affect flint life.

No info given on make of lock or flint used so....,

Easy first.

Number 1: Get some good flint the right size and length for your lock. Sawed chert is not good. Mostly I use black English flint usually from vendors at shoots or other gatherings but Track o the Wolf carries them. I have some of Rich Pierce's white Missouri chert and some out of Oklahoma. They work but I revert to the English. Some folks like French amber. Use leather to mount the flint in the jaws.  Lead increases the impact and can break/ dull a flint faster.

Number 2:  Angle of the dangle. To change the angle a little u can do bevel up or down, length of the rock or move toward/away from the frizzen.

Number 3: Harder. If none of the above help, tune the lock.  Increase the frizzen, check frizzen spring tension, change lock geometry by adjusting the cock angle. Or replace a junk lock w a good one.

[Don Adams]

Sorry it's a Chambers Late Ketland

[Standing Bear]

Good lock. Type of flint and size/ length most likely culprit.

[sqrldog]

Check to see if the frizzen is rebounding against the flint.  This could be the reason for short flint life. Put some teansfer color on the edge of the frizzen next to flint. Lipstick works well. Snap the lock and check for a color transfer line on top of your flint. Early model late Ketlands were prone to flint rebound. This caused the modification to a lighter cock and a redesign on the toe of the frizzen in the more recent Late Ketland locks. Tim

[Turtle]

 here's another theory; my flinter  with a durrs egg lock had short flint life. A fellow shooter on a woods walk looked at it and said the flint edge was directly in line with the touch hole and the white hot blast was weakening the flint. I turned it bevel up to correct this and flint life doubled. maybe 4f burns hotter than 3f and it is weakening your flint?

[Marcruger]

This is what I posted back in March.  Apparently the idea is a very old one......

"Hi folks,

I was speaking with Lowell Haarer at the New Market show this weekend.  We were discussing locks, and the topic of breaking/chipping flints came up.  It occurred to me that maybe some of y'all haven't heard of the trick I learned, so I will share it here. 

In talking with folks and researching why some locks are hard on flints, I repeatedly heard that "balancing" the power of the mainspring versus the frizzen spring is the cure.  I don't doubt this, but I am certainly not a builder like many on here......nor am I the great Jim Chambers!

In one book I read that one reason that flints get chipped/hammered/broken is that the frizzen actually bounces bad after opening, hitting the resting flint in the cock, and effectively knaps the edge of the flint.  It sure looked like the description of what my Late Ketland was doing to the flints.  I was losing flints at a fast rate. 

The solution in this book (I don't recall which right now), was to simply extend a piece of flattened lead ball out to the end of the flint on the top side.  This takes the blow from the knapping frizzen thereby stopping the issue.  I use leather in the jaws, so I experimented with longer leather on top. 

VOILA!  Problem solved.  The current flint you see is an old one, but keeps on sparking like mad.  It feels a little dull, but the gun goes off "right now". 

Thank you Lowell for asking me to share this. 

BTW, Lowell makes some beautiful rifles, and I got to handle a few at the show.  Well done, well balanced, and finely detailed. 

Best wishes and God Bless,  Marc"

[Don Adams]

Thanks for the input all - I use a size 6 flint from Track of the wolf - I will try the advice you have given.  Thank you all very much.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have an early Late Ketland lock in my Kuntz rifle, and it was horrible for rebound breaking my nice sharp flints, limiting the number of shots I could get from each rock.  to make sure I was working on the right issue, I put a piece of masking tape on the top of the exposed end of the flint, rubbed inletting black on the heel of the pan cover, and snapped the lock.  Sure enough, there was a black line across the masking tape, about 1/8" back from the sharp edge.  At first, I just extended the leather flint-leather over the top of the flint to absorb the rebound, but that leather soon cooked off and I was back to the swame issue.  I tried reducing the mainspring to better balance the main and frizzen springs, re-placing the wheel in the frizzen spring with a larger wheel to make the frizzen spring work harder, and finally removed metal from the frizzen's toe to make it rotate a little further.  This last item is the only thing that had any effect, but it still wasn't perfect, and now, with less metal, the frizzen spring's tension on the toe of the frizzen at rest, was flabby.  So I heated my frizzen spring red, and spread it's limbs a bit.  Then, I re-polished, re-hardened and re-tempered the spring, and now, it works perfectly.  Now I get close to a hundred shots from each good flint, and rarely have to knapp its edge.  The tension balance between main and frizzen springs is key.

[Turtle]

 My flints weren't getting big chips, they just got dull fast.

[Don Adams]

I'm sure it is the rebounding of the frizzen that is causing the short life of the flints. The descriptions on here have me thinking this is the problem.  Thanks everyone for the advice.

[thecapgunkid]

Once an experienced hunter and shooter told me that, because of the greater amount of air in between the granules, 3F would go off faster and get wet less.

Not sure about his scientific method, but his guns always went off fast and he ate a lot of venison.   I tried it in my musket and did not notice a difference.  Tried it in my rifle with the same result.  the only thing I did notice, because I had to really work on my follow through, was that the pan was less dirty and there was less flash.

Hope this helps

Capgun.

[Standing Bear]

Hmmm.  Guess we should shoot Fg?

[Curt Lyles]

Don   Extend the leather that you use to hold the flint in place so when the frizzen  rebounds it will take the shock and not  the flint.the frizzen mark will show up on the leather. Curt

[nosrettap1958]

I simply absolutely refuse under any circumstances to believe that.  There is no way that 3Fg will ignite faster or easier than 4Fg. The only reason to carry 3Fg over 4Fg is convenience while hunting.

[WKevinD]

  There is no way that 3Fg will ignite faster or easier than 4Fg.

I stopped using 4Fg when I realized how quickly it became damp even in a small priming horn. If there is a discernable difference in ignition time for dry powders I might be tempted to use 4Fg again.
I use 3Fg for most everything but my .62 & .75, those get 2Fg and my 3Fg from my primer. I shoot for fun and hunting so whatever makes it easier I'm there.
I shot a woods walk once with a guy that had a little squeeze bottle of 8Fg to give his caps a boost, I don't think he had any fun, spent too much time worrying and wiping his bore and getting annoyed with us for not taking it seriously.
Kevin