Does this look “about right”?

[Terry Reynolds]

Working on a colonial kit from TOW and not too crazy about the gap between the nose cap and ram rod. The web between the barrel and ram rod channel is so thick it leaves a pretty good gap. Tried to find a colonial period rifle as reference with no luck so don’t know if it’s correct or not.

Also, do the lock and side panels ( in the words of HH) look about right?

Thanks in advance.

[will payne]

I don't know much about building flintlocks but it looks good to me. 

[smart dog]

Hi Digger,
Welcome and thanks for posting.  I assume this is one of your first rifle attempts and I think in that context, you are doing pretty well. You asked if some things looked right.  They don't.  First, you probably can resolve the thick web of wood and reduce the gap between the ramrod and barrel.  There is no reason the rod has to be parallel with the bore so scrape or cut the ramrod groove deeper as you work toward the muzzle.  Hopefully, you haven't installed the thimbles.  The ramrod groove will be at a slight angle to the ramrod hole but that does not matter and helps to hold the rod in place because it will have a little bend. The barrel tang is too long.  You should have shortened it by perhaps 1/2".  Your stated intention was a colonial rifle but it is clear you selected a skinny, straight barrel, which makes building a earlier long rifle very difficult because the breech is too narrow.  Finally, you cut moldings around the lock and sideplate all the way round using a gouge or filing them with a round file.  Only the front of the lock and sideplate requires a gouge, the rest of the molding is shaped naturally when shaping the wrist. Click on the link below and scroll down to where we discuss how to shape lock moldings.
 http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=55095.0
Good luck with the project and get some reference books like "Recreating the American Long Rifle" by Buchele, Shumway, and Alexander.

dave

[David Rase]

One thing you could do to give the illusion of a lesser gap between the nose cap and the ramrod would be to buy a 1/2" ramrod and taper it down to your pipe diameter, in other words, flair the end of your ramrod.  As for your lock panels, your radius surrounding the lock panels is pretty sharp for a colonial era rifle.  Panels on earlier rifles have a tendency to rise out of the wood at a slope and later panels on later rifles used a sharper radius.
David

[Terry Reynolds]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Dave, unfortunately I was excited to get started and cut the pipes in so deepening the RR channel is out and I'm ashamed to say this is my 5th build but first colonial that ain't gonna end up as a colonial. To be honest I was trusting TOW to send me the right parts to build a colonial.....they called it a colonial LOL. I'll try to salvage the panels if I haven't cut too deep. Never crossed my mind to shorten the tang....it will in the future. Thanks for the reference, I see what you are saying.

David, gonna track down a 1/2" hickory dowel, chuck it up in the lathe and give the tampered end a try.

"Recreating the American Long Rifle" by Buchele, Shumway, and Alexander.....looking now.

Thanks again

(I'm afraid Mike is going to come along and make me pull weeds)

[Mike Lyons]

http://americanlongrifles.org/PDF/tutorial.pdf

Page 57 shows lock panels. Page 96 and 97 shows the creation of outlining the lock panels and 101 and 114 shows you how they look finished. I think yours are a little thick too.  Also, normally,  1/2 of your side barrel flat should show.   If you lower that wood to expose more barrel flat,  it will lower your end cap putting it closer, possibly right on your ramrod.  You’ve done a good job on that end cap and have plenty of room to lower it.  Dave’s example helped me a lot too. It looks like you still have plenty of room to make everything right.  Keep throwing up pictures and asking for advice.  You’ll end up with a dandy.   

[rich pierce]

All good advice above.

If the thimbles are not pinned just inlet them deeper.

Regarding the lock panels, it looks like you could lower the wood edge along the side flat.

[pjmcdonald]

Digger,

I’m learning that there are few things that can’t be reworked on a long rifle. For example, you could re-inlet the ramrod pipes after deepening the RR groove. If barrel lugs are in the way, you can file those down too. You might need to plug some holes and redrill. Lord knows I’ve done that many times.

It looks like you have enough wood on the side panels to feather the transitions. Look at the examples and follow the advice of experts here. I’m also learning to set my ego aside, eating a big bite of humble pie, and not getting set on anything I’ve already done. If it’s wrong, I try my best to fix it. Sometimes that is many re-dos.

That said, at some point I also call calf rope.  I’m not good enough yet to get it any more “right.” I do want a functioning rifle, after all!

Instead of chucking the RR in the lathe, try scraping. I just use a sharp knife on ram rods. Kind of a feel thing for me.

Good advice here that should keep you busy!

Regards,
Paul

[bama]

Digger, I cannot add to much to what has already been said, all good advice. I can make a comment about the parts kits that are available by the suppliers today. Several of the suppliers provide parts kits that are called by a type of school by name but in reality will not be able to be made into a PC correct rifle. I am not saying that the parts are bad or that they won't make into a good rifle.

What I am saying is that what they are calling a bulldog is actually a greyhound and you cannot make a bulldog with greyhound parts.

Studying these different schools of rifle building enough to know what is right and what is not right about the parts kits will help resolve some of these problems. Learning good stock architecture will solve the balance. There have been many on this board that have made the statement that they would rather build from a blank than fix the problems of a precarved stock. To thick of a web between the barrel and the ramrod is one of the problems in many of the precarved stocks.

This among other things is why I make as of my parts by hand and I start with a blank. I don't have to anybody else's problems, I only have to fix mine.😂

Just remember just because they call it colonial does not make it colonial.

Good luck and welcome to the board.

Jim

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Digger,

All good info above.  I don't remember seeing this mentioned in the replies above, so if this has already been mentioned, I apologize.  The wood at the breech in the following picture needs some attention.



Ideally, the wood at the breech should be removed so it is a continuation of the oblique barrel flats.  With a skinny barrel/large lock, this is not always possible, but you can "scoop" out some wood to help the transition to the barrel, not be so abrupt.

Take a look at this reply in another thread, and scroll down a few replies for pictures of what I'm talking about.  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38972.msg376972#msg376972

-Ron

[Jim Kibler]

I just gotta say, that your experience is so typical.  A beginner trusts a vendor that makes claims and then ends up with something not quite what they expected, or what it should be.  To be honest, from the perspective of an experienced builder and high quality kit producer, what you've received is sub-par.  This has been the standard for way to long and is exactly what we're trying to do differently.

Jim

[Terry Reynolds]

No doubt Jim, I got what I paid for.....once bitten, twice shy.

Ron, your link helps a lot. Thanks

Mike, I should have started with M.Brooks tutorial and a blank but the ole shoulder won't take to kindly to all the filing. I've butt welded and filed aluminum rod for years along with competing in high power matches which has taken a toll.
Thanks.

[Mauser06]

After 2 precarves I went to a blank. 


Really no more "filing" on a blank than a precarve.   I found the blank to go smoother.  My inletting was better as was the drilling.  Probably because everything was flat and square.  Shaping went fairly quick. I had it to a precarve state in no time with my bandsaw, gouge and hammer, a iwasaki rasps.  The iwasakis removed wood quickly and fairly effortlessly and left a fairly clean surface.  Better than what precarves typically come like...


Just some info you might find useful from someone that just made the transition.   

[Tim Crosby]

 The critiques given here, open, frank and honest along with suggestions on what should be are exactly why I joined this site 14 or 15 years ago. I give a lot of credit to the members who do post, not only finished but in progress work and take not only their critiques with an open mind but incorporate suggested changes. You can read all the books you want but when you have some of the best builders in the world at your fingertips who are willing to help it doesn't get any better, Do Not miss the chance.

   Thanks Guys, Tim C. 


PS: If you can and are serious about what you do this could be the best thing you have ever done:
      http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=55041.0. It can be hard to do but listen to the
      good side. TC 

[Eric Krewson]

I can relate to your lock molding shaping, I forged ahead on my first gun without studying up on what they were supposed to look like (plank build), looking back, YUCK!




I got much better on the last three guns.

[Mike Lyons]

I can relate to your lock molding shaping, I forged ahead on my first gun without studying up on what they were supposed to look like (plank build), looking back, YUCK!




I got much better on the last three guns.

My first kit gun looked almost identical to that.  You did a better carving job that I did.  The sad part about carving in the lock panels that way other than being wrong is that it is extremely difficult.  Once you learn how to do it the correct way, it is a whole lot easier.

On another note,  some of the TN and SMR rifles appear to have their lock panels carved in similar to that.  Has anyone else noticed that?

[smart dog]

Hi Digger,
I just wanted to mention that my description of shaping lock panels results in stock architecture that I think most contemporary makers find the most pleasing and is common to many of the most highly regarded original guns.  However, if you visit our Bruce Miller digital photo library, you will see quite a few original rifles made very much like yours.  For example, look at this Peter Berry from our Bruce Miller digital photo collection:   
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=20788.0

To be honest, I don't like the way Berry shaped the lock panels but there you have it.  To you and everyone, I urge you to use our digital photo library.  Mark Elliot is administering it and has added new guns. It is one of the most valuable features within ALR.

dave

dave

[Terry Reynolds]

David, I’m feeling it!

[John Shaw]

Digger,

I wonder if anyone here has not built a rifle that he thought was beautiful and then a year or two later thought, "darn! why did I do it like that"?. That's been my story anyway. I'm just happy that I didn't put my name on my earlier attempts. You'll find that your work keeps getting better if you keep at it. The internet and forums like this one are a real bonus compared to what we had in the '70's. My theory is that with as many rifles as were made during the "colonial" period there were probably quite a few that looked a lot like like yours and mine so might as well shoot it and enjoy it. The photos are of a rifle I built in 1980 from a Homer Dangler blank that was supposed to be something like a Lancaster or Leman trade rifle. After many years in storage it's been a lot of fun to get it smoking again.

JS






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