Author Topic: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)  (Read 5052 times)

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« on: July 12, 2009, 04:10:05 PM »
A fine example of a Southern rifle.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=5622.0

Hurricane
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 06:06:22 PM by Mark Elliott »

Offline VP

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Re: ALT Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 03:51:19 AM »
I would like to say that the comments that you have been adding about the gun's attributes are very educational to those of us who are learning how to "read" the longrifles. Hopefully, your future submissions will have these if the owner allows it.

Van Pitman

Offline B Shipman

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 07:38:38 AM »
I've had a chance to really look at this rifle with magnification.

The stock has had no repairs. The nosecap and pipes apear to be original. The forward barrel pin is new. A little larger.

The barrel appears to be originally  flint. No hint of ever having a drum. Just a well worn vent hole with some soft gunk inside. No hint that the barrel has ever been shortened.

The set trigger appears to be original with the set screw replaced.  The front trigger has a sheen on the right side where the finger would brush it , but the workmanship and patina match perfectly.

The single lock bolt is a replacement , a common piece in any catalog, and the lock, the plate marked LONDON WARRANTED, is almost certainly so.  In truth, the flintlocks on most rifles are replacements.

The signature is in script, but not readable unless you know what you're looking at.

Basically this is a very righteous rifle probably picked up originally without a lock or set screw in the trigger. It would make a very cool build for someone wanting something different than the usual  E. Tenna. style of the same period.


Offline G-Man

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 09:25:23 PM »
The guard and triggers on this rifle are really wonderful in my opinion - never seen anyone copy anything like them - really unique but still enough of a recognizable regional flavor.  

Are those diagonal lines abrasions or decorative cuts along the toe and surrounding the cheekpiece?

Guy
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 09:27:56 PM by Guy Montfort »

Offline B Shipman

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 06:21:23 AM »
Abrasion, I can't see them as decoration.

Offline WElliott

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 07:17:34 AM »
I don't know John Whiteside's work, but the long bow of the guard and the cheekpiece lend credence to an attribution to SW Virginia.
Wayne
Wayne Elliott

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 05:46:50 PM »
There are several features/characteristics that tell me that this rifle was made by an Indiana maker   named Zebadee Wood or by the partnership of Wood and George Proctor. I have photographed several rifles made by the duo and they are signed, "Wood & Proctor" in script. The examples that I have handled are serial numbered and sometimes dated. One example laid across my lap right now is signed, numbered, and dated: "Wood & Proctor No193 AD 1831". The earliest date I have seen on one of their rifles is 1828. the rifle pictured looks "right" to me. I'd be somewhat surprised if there are no signs of a signature on this gun.

The shape and workmanship of the iron triggerguard, triggers, stock architecture, and engraving tell me which maker or partnership produced this rifle.

Wood came to Indiana from North Carolina(where he was likely trained)in 1818.

Over the years he has become one of my favorite southern Indiana makers.

I would like to photograph this rifle and include in a reference book on Indiana makers. Any help doing so wouold be greatly apreciated.

Offline Curt J

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 03:38:11 AM »
There was something about this rifle that looked vaguely familiar, though I couldn't quite put my finger on it.  I think "Indiana Gunmakers" may very well be right.  I have seen a couple of "Wood & Proctor" rifles myself, and now that I think about it, this is a dead ringer for one. Not every rifle that appears to be "Southern" is Southern.  All it takes is for the maker to have Southern roots or to have learned the trade from someone who did.

Offline B Shipman

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 07:27:11 AM »
Maybe someone can have Gerald Neeves weigh in on this and have a debate. I'm completely ignorant of either side. I hope so. What could be better.

Indiana Gunmakers

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside/Wood and Proctor ( Attribution)
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 02:54:55 AM »
Several pics of a Wood & Proctor. This duo had a shop a mile or two north of present-day Mitchell, Indiana. This is a reconversion to flint using the original lockplate. The finish and sharp edges have been sanded off. The forestock was broken. The barrel and stock have been cut off  4 or 5 inches from the muzzle end and a period metal "sleeve" has been fitted to prevent further deterioration of the cracked stock. Wood came to Indiana in 1818 from North Carolina. I'd be grateful to have the opportunity to photograph the handsome Wood & Proctor that initiated this discussion. Can anyone help?









« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 06:07:51 PM by Mark Elliott »

Offline Curt J

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 06:49:29 AM »
The 1850 census indicates that Zebedee Wood was born in North Carolina in 1791. He is listed as a farmer in Lawrence County, Indiana in 1850.

Offline B Shipman

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 07:27:19 AM »
Pretty convincing. If you can get to the CLA Show, I'll bring it. If not, send me your wants. I'm a passable photographer. Great stuff guys.

Indiana Gunmakers

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Re: ALR Musuem Gunsmith: John Whiteside ( Attribution)
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 03:12:20 AM »
Mr. Shipman,

Will try my best to get to the CLA show in August. Last year was my first visit there and I absolutely loved it. I'll stay in touch.