Note to Moderators - Patches and Lubes

[Marcruger]

It is my opinion that we need a sticky posting that has patch advice and lube advice.  Or two separate stickies. 

It seems like every week we get the same posts under Black Powder Shooting.  I am guessing folks are not using the Search function. 

Just a thought.   God Bless,   Marc

[hanshi]

I'll second that suggestion. 

[WadePatton]

I'm pretty sure that the type of research that I was taught in school is no longer practiced.  That blurt out any/every question you have the moment you have it is the "new way" of the young folks.  It's completely defeating of the forum format as I see it, where we have solid reference information just begging to be discovered and spread enlightenment.

Maybe a "Noob" section with only the best mile-long threads on lube and patches--as well as rifling styles and twists and powder granulations, and loading, wiping, etc.

Then some way to -strongly encourage- new folks to peruse that information or even to search three times before posting a new thread on the same old same old.

Speaking of searching. One of the best ways to limit results (get good results) on site searches is to search "titles only" BUT that only works when folks use good titles with proper spelling.  If I was given moderator powers, fixing spelling in titles and even subject lines SUCH that "titles only" searching would be more rewarding is something I'd put some effort into.  I cannot support the site financially, but I could help out there a little. 

Just some thoughts, as you were. 

[MuskratMike]

OK, here is The"Muskrat's" take on this. Everyone of us was a "new bee" at one time.
If you are new don't start new posts if there is already one out there (and there probably is). Take time to read the answers from our wise old sages before adding your 2 cents unless you have a viable answer. If you are new to this forum or long rifles in general go back through the last hundred or so posts on your favorite topic you will find a true treasure trove of previously written information.
"Listen to old guys, we know stuff"!

[Dennis Glazener]

It is my opinion that we need a sticky posting that has patch advice and lube advice.  Or two separate stickies. 

It seems like every week we get the same posts under Black Powder Shooting.  I am guessing folks are not using the Search function. 

Just a thought.   God Bless,   Marc

sounds good but it's my experience most people just skip right over all the stickies, myself included (on other forums). But I do use the search function before I open up a new topic.
Dennis

[rich pierce]

It’s all pretty simple really.

Use thick patches.
Yer lubes are dry (Teflon patches or dried Ballistol suspension), water soluble, or grease-based. Don’t use spit when it’s freezing. If you use dry patching you must swab between shots.

That is pretty much it.

[Tizzy]

Gentlemen,
First and foremost I would like to say thank you to all on this forum that have offered me help over the past decade. You are truly respected and appreciated. By this post I have taken it that some members do not appreciate my posting for help with my current rifle build, specifically my current post titled "Patch Material".  I would like to  encourage moderators  to delete the thread. In fact I would appreciate it if they did. Over the past decade I have enjoyed this forum, in fact I have followed it to the point that I check it every morning and night before bed. It is here recently that I have started posting instead of just using the "Search" function as I feel that I have the experience to be able to offer something now.  There have been many on this forum that have assisted me and offered advice, and to those that have, I personally thank you! However, it is hard to stomach those that insinuate my laziness through what is my supposed posting before not utilizing the search function. Though not openly spoken, laziness is what is implied in this current thread. New generation or not, I will not allow those who do not know me, nor have any idea what I have sacrificed for our great nation to insinuate such things.....especially laziness. I came to this forum for assistance, if that is not what can be offered without condensation, then I best search else where.
You know, we all have things that stand out in our memory. One of those for me was standing at a popular gun show... no one would pay the "newcomer" any attention, better yet converse with him. I was admiring a certain rifle when a voice behind me said " almost looks like a Woodbury Rifle." When I turned around it was Hershel House. He spent the next half hour talking to this newcomer, I know he could have spent his time better served, but it meant the world to me. 

[rich pierce]

Tizzy, it’s unlikely that comments above are directed primarily at you.

The “Original Poster” has the ability to delete a discussion they started. Others do not, except moderators. And moderators only remove topics where discussions are breaking rules.

[Tizzy]

Thanks Rich. Done.

[WadePatton]

Tizzy none of my comments were directed at any particular person and especially not you. They're based on 10 years or so of being a part of this forum, and 30 years of being on some sort of digital discussions platform.

I understand that search functions vary by format and lots of "tricks" for best results aren't widely known, and that our failure to promote good titles/spelling hampers search results on this site.  There's always something to learn.

Gazing into the ball of our future-on the eve of 2030, I predict/expect that many of us will yet be here and there'll still be some confusion and interest in patch lubes and other idiosyncrasies/necessities of the BP way.  IT is good.  Endeavor to persevere.

[John Thomas]

As a long time lurker on this site, I have found it to be a fantastic source of information as I slowly work my way through my first assembly, a Chambers Colonial Virginia kit.  I have found great help in the tutorial by Mr. Brooks as well as the videos by Mr. Raby, I greatly appreciate these gentlemen sharing their experience with those new to this past time.  I had not yet posted to the forum as I haven't had anything to contribute, but this thread did allow me to add something to the discussion.

The search function on the site is not ideal, but using a Google search by copying and pasting this (what is between the quotation marks, don't include the " ")

"search term site:americanlongrifles.org"

into the Google search bar has provided me with much better results than typing the same search term in the site's search bar.  When I have had a question come up, I could generally find the answer using this Google method.  Thanks to all who have replied over the years, even years old discussions can still be helpful.

I hope this tip can help someone, I learned it from someone at work and it has been a great help in finding what I needed on the internet.

[hanshi]

I believe I may have had something else in mind as far as a sticky is concerned.  I was thinking about a sticky with the various concoction recipes and descriptions of what mink oil, etc, actually was.  As far as day to day lube use questions go, yes, they can be posted and answered just like always in the BP forum or accouterments forum..

[rich pierce]

I’d be happy if somebody qualified who is also good at communicating did a tutorial on “how to develop an accurate load for your rifle.”

Crown
Caliber, twist, and powder type and charge
Groove depth, ball diameter, patching, and reading patches
Proper shooting techniques for load development
Reading your target results

[WadePatton]

As a long time lurker on this site, I have found it to be a fantastic source of information...

I hope this tip can help someone, I learned it from someone at work and it has been a great help in finding what I needed on the internet.

Thanks John.  I see someone else has learned a work around for our limited search engine, but PLEASE NEVER forget that the "site specific" search will work on Bing or any other "standard" search engine.  The world is not Google-despite Google's intentions.  As a Contrarian I must use Bing or othersuch.  Using these other search facilities lets one use standard modifiers that allow inclusion/exclusion and other parameters.

I've tried to explain site-specific searching through the major search providers on here many times, but I don't know if anyone ever benefited from it. 

ONE of the most aggravating things about some searches is you cannot force a word form such that returns will include -every- instance of the word searched for no matter how irrelevant the full compound word is to the search. So we try to search but get loads of irrelevant results. BTDT 999x.

example for any who don't follow my words:  Search for "gun" here and you get results including:

gun
guns
gunsmith
gunsmiths
shotgun
shotguns
gunmaker
gunshop
gunmaking
gunner
gunsmithing, etc. It can be much worse.

I haven't figured out any way to force any specific term. The engine is blind to all the modifiers I've tried for limitations and exclusions, BUT I can has these things if I go off site and use a big engine--but then it's not seeing all the pages here.  So there's that.  I think there are rules for the various forums softwares searching functions, but they're all different and I've yet to find them for the SMF program the ALR exists on.

Yes we can get in there and chose which specific areas we search, but sometimes we don't know where the answers will properly be found-especially when new.

It can be worse with many other terms.  Hey--try "flint"!   

And it is my impression that folks don't generally understand how to do more complicated  or "remote" searches, so I understand posting repetitive inquiries sometimes.

[Hungry Horse]

 I have to say that some of the most enjoyable hours of my muzzleloader shooting life, were those spent at the range experimenting with patch lubes, patching, and powder charges. When I started shooting muzzleloaders, many of the old timers were pretty tight lipped about their shooting secrets. Now it seems that not only are the newbies not interested in finding out what works on their own, they aren’t interested in checking what’s been documented before in this forum. So, we get and endless loop of the same questions, about the same subjects, responded to by the same “experts”. There has to be a solution to this silliness.


    Hungry Horse

[Maven]

"So, we get and endless loop of the same questions, about the same subjects, responded to by the same “experts”. There has to be a solution to this silliness."  ...HH


Well said, Hungry Horse!  I see the same problem on other forums as well and "stickies" may help alleviate it, i.e., if folks take the time to read them.

[rich pierce]

I’d be happy if somebody qualified who is also good at communicating did a tutorial on “how to develop an accurate load for your rifle.”

Crown
Caliber, twist, and powder type and charge
Groove depth, ball diameter, patching, and reading patches
Proper shooting techniques for load development
Reading your target results

Any takers? I really think a summary that we could put in Tutorials would help the most, and the more comprehensive the better.

[galudwig]

I’d be happy if somebody qualified who is also good at communicating did a tutorial on “how to develop an accurate load for your rifle.”

Crown
Caliber, twist, and powder type and charge
Groove depth, ball diameter, patching, and reading patches
Proper shooting techniques for load development
Reading your target results

Any takers? I really think a summary that we could put in Tutorials would help the most, and the more comprehensive the better.

A few years back, I remember a Forum member posted a simple video tutorial that showed how he went about loading a smoothbore flintlock from the pouch. I couldn't remember who the member was, so I did a simple search, typing in the words "loading muzzleloader video." Several threads came up and the one I was thinking of was about the 4th thread down:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=43213.msg422108#msg422108

While some appreciated the video, plenty of Forum members spent the better part of two and a half pages telling everyone why their method was better than his. While that topic isn't directly related to this one, it perfectly illustrates how posts that tell people how to do things, while having merit, will eventually all devolve into arguements over proper methodology. If you don't turn off the ability to comment on a post, video, tutorial, or sticky, you are just asking for the same result. There are plenty of ways to accomplish the same task; that is unless you are an expert. Then, there is only your way.

While the responses were supposedly not directed at Tizzy, questions similar to his always trigger similar responses from the Forum. I can't imagine walking up to someone and asking for help or advice and being told "I've answered that question so many times, that I don't answer them directly anymore. However, you can find all my answers to your questions by doing an internet search. This is how you do it." To me, if Forum members are tired of answering the same old questions, just stop. If you are feeling benevolent, at least search for a related thread or two yourself and post links to them. That way, you give the person a starting place without coming off as a piece of work. The purpose of a discussion forum is to discuss. If you don't want or have time to add useful discussion to a thread, move on. In the time it takes to insinuate laziness on the part of the poster or write about how and why you should be doing a Forum search instead of bringing up old topics, you could have written or linked to something useful. Just step away and let that those that want to discuss, rehash, and exchange new ideas, do so. I doubt that will ever happen though. 

Hey Tizzy, I bet if you run into Hershel two years from now, he will still remember your name and take the time to visit with you. He's one of those rare guys who never met a stranger!

[snapper]

New people come and people go.  That is life.   It is really simple, I will let you in on a little secret.   If I dont like the topic heading, I DONT READ IT.   Not hard.   Patch lube thread, I did not open it.  No stress.   No issues on my end regarding reading anything that I dont want to.

People will ask questions, that is what this place is for.  Not a problem.  Let them ask what is the best lube.   Someone will answer them.  I wont even open the topic if I am not interested.  This is not to be disrespectful of ANYONE. 

I like helping new people, but in the areas that I have an interest in.

Try it, you might actually like it.

Fleener

[WadePatton]

I’d be happy if somebody qualified who is also good at communicating did a tutorial on “how to develop an accurate load for your rifle.”

Crown
Caliber, twist, and powder type and charge
Groove depth, ball diameter, patching, and reading patches
Proper shooting techniques for load development
Reading your target results

Any takers? I really think a summary that we could put in Tutorials would help the most, and the more comprehensive the better.

A few years back, I remember a Forum member posted a simple video tutorial ...

A comprehensive instructional/tutorial should include not just one way to do each thing, but consider most of the popular ways of doing things, pointing out some of the arguments for/against (or trade offs or documentation), while not insisting that this or the other way is absolutely correct. As sure as there were rifles and guns in the past, there were variations on how they were stoked and also on their performance and reliability varied as a function of these differences.

So when this guide gets composed it will be quite a read, with lots of chapters, like a book.  I won't volunteer because most of what I've learned/know has been from reading, not field practice.  But I will offer to edit for the composer(s) of such a reference. 

Winter is nigh and maybe some folks have a few minutes in the darkness of the whiteout to assemble the Definitive Rifleman's Primer (with a smoothbore supplement or chapters?). 

[Notchy Bob]

New people come and people go.  That is life.   It is really simple, I will let you in on a little secret.   If I dont like the topic heading, I DONT READ IT.   Not hard.   Patch lube thread, I did not open it.  No stress.   No issues on my end regarding reading anything that I dont want to.

People will ask questions, that is what this place is for.  Not a problem.  Let them ask what is the best lube.   Someone will answer them.  I wont even open the topic if I am not interested.  This is not to be disrespectful of ANYONE. 

I like helping new people, but in the areas that I have an interest in.

Fleener

I agree with Snapper.

Best regards,
Notchy Bob

[MuskratMike]

Ditto to what Snapper and Notchy Bob said.

[rich pierce]

I’d be happy if somebody qualified who is also good at communicating did a tutorial on “how to develop an accurate load for your rifle.”

Crown
Caliber, twist, and powder type and charge
Groove depth, ball diameter, patching, and reading patches
Proper shooting techniques for load development
Reading your target results

Any takers? I really think a summary that we could put in Tutorials would help the most, and the more comprehensive the better.

A few years back, I remember a Forum member posted a simple video tutorial ...

A comprehensive instructional/tutorial should include not just one way to do each thing, but consider most of the popular ways of doing things, pointing out some of the arguments for/against (or trade offs or documentation), while not insisting that this or the other way is absolutely correct. As sure as there were rifles and guns in the past, there were variations on how they were stoked and also on their performance and reliability varied as a function of these differences.

So when this guide gets composed it will be quite a read, with lots of chapters, like a book.  I won't volunteer because most of what I've learned/know has been from reading, not field practice.  But I will offer to edit for the composer(s) of such a reference. 

Winter is nigh and maybe some folks have a few minutes in the darkness of the whiteout to assemble the Definitive Rifleman's Primer (with a smoothbore supplement or chapters?).

Wade, good thoughts but most writers write best about what works for them. If there is any interest by experienced, successful shooters writing a single comprehensive “how-to”, I’d be happy to play role of editor as needed. Then I’d want the topic locked until we find additional skilled load developers/shooters who would wish to provide concise counterpoints. Then lock it permanently.

Otherwise it seems to me it would devolve into what we currently have. These are my ideas but of course anyone is welcome to do it their way and we will see if it should become a sticky or tutorial.

[JohnnyFM]

Search engines are not perfect.
A person willing to learn but ignorant on a subject has a high chance at being unsuccessful in their search because of lack of key words.
A FAQs section categorized by established topics is an efficient idea as long as the objective is to make the forum more “user friendly “ rather than relieve the complainers from the burden of having to repeat themselves.  They have free wii and can always abstain.

Negatives about stickies : they are limiting.  They cannot be easily amended and bar others from contributing. It will be implied that a sticky is “official policy” of ALR board.  While some would find it righteous that their view on a topic is adopted officially, others will find it tyrannical.  There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.  There is always the possibility, though not probable, that an “expert” may change his mind, say, from the “best” from 2years ago to a “new and improved way” in the present. Highly unlikely but I like to be an optimist 

Moderators may have to invest more time and effort to keep FAQs “to the top” and relevant and viable.

[LynnC]

Lets face it gentlemen, entire books have been written on the subject of loading and shooting the MLR.

It starts out simple.....powder, patch and ball.  Then it ever expands from there to cover every possible scenario.

It fast becomes a daunting task 😉