First time shooting the new Kibler SMR .45

[OldMtnMan]

The new Pedersoli Great Plains I just got has the tightest bore i've owned. I normally use a 2 1/2" cleaning patch. Not in this gun. I have to pound in a 2" patch. I haven't shot it yet but in the manual Pedersoli recommends a .010 shooting patch.

I just loaded it using October Bumblin Bear Grease and a .010 patch. I wouldn't want to try a thicker patch the way the bore is right now. Maybe it will loosen up some with more shooting.

Daryl...I don't think i'm settling for bad accuracy. A 2" group at 75 yds offhand isn't that bad. Of course that was for elk which have a big kill zone. For deer I may have to settle for a smaller group. What are your groups at 75yds offhand?

[smylee grouch]

You might try to turn down your jag a bit to use those cleaning patches.

[OldMtnMan]

True, but shooting patches will still be thin.

It's so barrel heavy i'm not sure i'll keep it. CG is at the front wedge. That's pretty far forward and I feel it right in my lower back. I didn't think it would be that bad.

[OldMtnMan]

I'm not going to give up on it. I did find out something in a Mike Nesbitt review. He said the barrel has a button rifling and has .006 grooves.

Does the .010 patch make more sense with that barrel?

[Prairie dog shooter]

A tighter load will close up  those groups.  With my Kibler for general shooting offhand at NMLRA targets I use a .440 ball and a .018 ticking patch lubed with either spit, moose milk or Mr. Flintlock lube. These will go in the black if I do my part.  But for shooting at a small "X" at 25 yards to score at a meat shoot I use 40 gr of Goex, a .445 ball and .022 canvas patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube.  Need a mallet to get the load started but goes down smoothly.

At first glance, I thought you had been hunting in the meat market at Safeway!

[Big Bubba]

These are all 3 shot groups. .440 ball, spit patch. Did not clean barrel until I was done shooting for today. Top row is all 50 grains Olde E. Left to right .020 cotton patch, .018 pillow ticking patch, .015 cotton patch. The bottom row is the same, but used 55 grains Olde E. I did start messing with some different loads with the .018 patches, but my spots started falling off the targets and I lost track. It was also getting windy. Opening up my rear sight definitely helped out.

[Big Bubba]

A tighter load will close up  those groups.  With my Kibler for general shooting offhand at NMLRA targets I use a .440 ball and a .018 ticking patch lubed with either spit, moose milk or Mr. Flintlock lube. These will go in the black if I do my part.  But for shooting at a small "X" at 25 yards to score at a meat shoot I use 40 gr of Goex, a .445 ball and .022 canvas patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube.  Need a mallet to get the load started but goes down smoothly.

Bob,
How many grains fo powder are you using with the .440 ball and .018 ticking.? So far that is combo my rifle seems to like, but I still need to play around with the different charges.

Thanks,
Bubba

[OldMtnMan]

Well, I shot my gun. The gun is so heavy that 80gr feels like a .22. I'll try 90 gr next time. Didn't need a .010 patch. I went with a .015 and may try a PT .018 next time.

Sorry Bubba. We can give two gun reports in this thread.

[Big Bubba]

Well, I shot my gun. The gun is so heavy that 80gr feels like a .22. I'll try 90 gr next time. Didn't need a .010 patch. I went with a .015 and may try a PT .018 next time.

Sorry Bubba. We can give two gun reports in this thread.

What caliber is yours?

[OldMtnMan]

.50

I normally use a .54 but I won't be hunting for elk anymore and a .50 is fine for deer and bear.

[Big Bubba]

.50

I have a .50 cal half stock that I built 25 years ago. Mine has a fast twist (1:28), so I only shoot conicals (T/C Maxi ball). Only load that with 70 grains 2F, which is fine for whitetails out to a 100 yards. I started out with 3F, but that killed my shoulder. Of course I know now that was because of the way I put that crescent butt plate on my shoulder.

[OldMtnMan]

A lot of guys make that mistake. Me included.

I have to chuckle at Hickock45 when he shoots his GPR. He shoulders it like he's shooting an AR-15 and then complains the butt plate is digging into him.

[Leatherbark]

Bob,
How many grains fo powder are you using with the .440 ball and .018 ticking.? So far that is combo my rifle seems to like, but I still need to play around with the different charges.

Thanks,
Bubba

With the 1/66 twist it is my experience that twist usually prefers a larger charge for best overall accuracy.  The 65 grain load with the .440 ball in the target image shoots good at all distances offhand out to 100 yards.  But for pinpoint accuracy needed in our "meat shoot" I have found the .445 ball and thicker canvas patch is hard to beat with just 40 grains or so of 3g Goex at 25 yards.  I do not like it for general shooting.  I dislike using a mallet. If I cannot start the ball with a whack with the palm of my hand for general shooting then it is too tight for me.  I scored a 164 or maybe a 167 (can't remember) in the 2019 Fall shoot at Friendship with the .440 ball and ticking with 65 grains of Goex 3f in the Offhand Flintlock Hunting rifle category with my 45 Kibler.
What I don't like about the .45 SMR is that you have to pace your shots in a match.  Mirage from those thin barrel walls will absolutely mess with your scores.  Pace your shots and it is no problem..............Bob

[Leatherbark]

In my Kibler SMR rifle at 25 yards using the .445 ball with the canvas .022 patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock and using 40 grains of 3f Goex if I place the sights on the "X" and yank the trigger at the same time the sights are aligned, and the ball will hit the mark.  One thing about a meat shoot like this is that you can win with a bad shot when the other 40 shooters have a worse shot.  I've seen everyone make a bad shot and the winner's shot wasn't within an inch of the X.  But most of the time if you are not within 3/8s of an inch of the X you are not in the running in my neck of the woods.  Man I love that gun. 

[Big Bubba]

Bob,
How many grains fo powder are you using with the .440 ball and .018 ticking.? So far that is combo my rifle seems to like, but I still need to play around with the different charges.

Thanks,
Bubba

With the 1/66 twist it is my experience that twist usually prefers a larger charge for best overall accuracy.  The 65 grain load with the .440 ball in the target image shoots good at all distances offhand out to 100 yards.  But for pinpoint accuracy needed in our "meat shoot" I have found the .445 ball and thicker canvas patch is hard to beat with just 40 grains or so of 3g Goex at 25 yards.  I do not like it for general shooting.  I dislike using a mallet. If I cannot start the ball with a whack with the palm of my hand for general shooting then it is too tight for me.  I scored a 164 or maybe a 167 (can't remember) in the 2019 Fall shoot at Friendship with the .440 ball and ticking with 65 grains of Goex 3f in the Offhand Flintlock Hunting rifle category with my 45 Kibler.
What I don't like about the .45 SMR is that you have to pace your shots in a match.  Mirage from those thin barrel walls will absolutely mess with your scores.  Pace your shots and it is no problem..............Bob

Thanks Bob, that is what I was looking for, a load for general shooting. I was not sure which way to go with my charge. I don't do competition shoots, but did order some .445 balls to try out. I will have to try to pace my shots better, I was shooting pretty much back to back yesterday, so could have been affecting my shot placement. With the .018 ticking I could put two shots touching on the bullseye, but the third shot would be off. I figured it was just me.

[Daryl]

In my .45 with 60" twist, for general trail walks using a water based lube, either WWWF + a tich of oil or spit, I used 65gr. 3F as that load was a fairly consistent
1/2" C to C at 50yards.
If I used a slippery lube like LeHighVally or Mr. Flintlock lube, I had to go to 75gr. 3F to get the same accuracy at 50 yards. The velocity was a lot higher with the
heavier charge, but the point of impact pretty much stayed the same.
Lube makes a difference.  I did not try mink oil in the .40 or .45 so cannot comment on that lube, in these barrels.

[Big Bubba]

In my .45 with 60" twist, for general trail walks using a water based lube, either WWWF + a tich of oil or spit, I used 65gr. 3F as that load was a fairly consistent
1/2" C to C at 50yards.
If I used a slippery lube like LeHighVally or Mr. Flintlock lube, I had to go to 75gr. 3F to get the same accuracy at 50 yards. The velocity was a lot higher with the
heavier charge, but the point of impact pretty much stayed the same.
Lube makes a difference.  I did not try mink oil in the .40 or .45 so cannot comment on that lube, in these barrels.

What is WWWF + a tich of oil? I was using all spit patches yesterday, which worked pretty good. Did not clean between shots all day and final cleaning was really easy, but interested in trying other lubes. Ordered some Hoppe's patch lube to try with some other supplies (that happened to be what they had). The mink oil I would use for hunting, since it doesn't dry out.

[smylee grouch]

WWWF is I think winter  windshield washer fluid. A lot of people use Hoppe's #9 path lube with good results me included for any kind of shooting other than hunting where I use Tracks mink oil/bear oil mix.

[Daniel Coats]

The chemical composition of the slavia in a good spit patch is the direct result of whatcha been drinkin. Ok I made that up really seams to work for me! 

[Big Bubba]

The chemical composition of the slavia in a good spit patch is the direct result of whatcha been drinkin. Ok I made that up really seams to work for me! 

Levi Garret chewing tobacco, provides the right consistency of slime.

[Daryl]

Bubba- the Grouch has it right. WWWF +  tich of oil, is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid + a bit of Neetsfoot Oil.
The Winter stuff (I use Blue thunder) is usually under $4.00 per gallon 7 to 8 ounces or so of Neestfoot oil I put in it,
is cheap. Not as cheap as spit, but cheaper than about anything else. The oil is to reduce evapouration on hot days
on the trail, as well as to provide a bit of slippery to the washer fluid. It works about the same as spit and it about as
slippery - not much.  I use this with pre-cut patches, lubed and kept in a tin, sucrets or one of the containers Track sells.
I have a bunch of those. They work very well for holding lubed patches in the possible's bag along with the balls.
Shake the WWWF container before pouring over the patches. Let them soak it up, the squeeze the stack in the container,
running the excess back into the lube container.
I used the snuff and tinder boxes on this page, along with Sucretts Tins, .22 &.25 cal. "pellet" tins as well.  The screw-on
H&N along with the JSB push lids.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/23/1

[smylee grouch]

Daryl, you mention " a bit of Neetsfoot oil" in you mix and I'm wondering if water soluble machine oil would work as well if you couldn't find any Neetsfoot oil.

[Big Bubba]

Bubba- the Grouch has it right. WWWF +  tich of oil, is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid + a bit of Neetsfoot Oil.
The Winter stuff (I use Blue thunder) is usually under $4.00 per gallon 7 the 8 ounces or so of Neestfoot oil I put in it,
is cheap. Not as cheap as spit, but cheaper than about anything else. The oil is to reduce evapouration on hot days
on the trail, as well as to provide a bit of slippery to the washer fluid. It works about the same as spit and it about as
slippery - not much.  I use this with pre-cut patches, lubed and kept in a tin, sucrets or one of the containers Track sells.
I have a bunch of those. They work very well for holding lubed patches in the possible's bag along with the balls.
Shake the WWWF container before pouring over the patches. Let them soak it up, the squeeze the stack in the container,
running the excess back into the lube container.
I used the snuff and tinder boxes on this page, along with Sucretts Tins, .22 &.25 cal. "pellet" tins as well.  The screw-on
H&N along with the JSB push lids.


That would make a lot of patch lube cheap.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/23/1

[Daryl]

A gallon used to last a year of trail walks. Now that we don't shoot the trail as often, it lasts a lot longer.

[Bob McBride]

We were making a joke Daryl. We know it's the ground.

I'd still like to see a group with the .010 patch. Just to compare.

btw..I don't use a patch that thin but i'm the curious type.

Imagine putting together a 3” group and having the 5th shot go inexplicably two feet left. That’s your .010 group.