South Carolina Rifles - How Are They Identified?

[Tanselman]

South Carolina rifles seem to be the "black hole" of American longrifle collecting, with very little published or known about them. With wealthy planters and tradesmen in South Carolina, there had to be some fine rifles made there. Jim Whisker published "Arms Makers of South Carolina" in 2017 with primarily a good list of SC gunsmiths, but very limited rifles illustrated, with most "attributed" based on their general southern feel. A "Stephen Crane" rifle is pictured, but no signature is shown, nor is there a statement on whether the gun is signed or attributed by the owner; the write-up on Shephen Crane does not provide documentation to verify he was a gunsmith.

It would be helpful, and educational for all collectors, to have AmericanLongrifle members offer their knowledge on South Carolina rifles, signed examples they have seen, pictures they can post, and their thoughts on what details help identify South Carolina rifles from other nearby rifles.

I have seen several rifles over the years that I thought were likely South Carolina rifles, but none were signed or initialed.  I owned one good quality rifle with full engraved patchbox, some inlay work, and several interesting stocking details [moldings] that I was certain was from SC. It has moved on to another collector, but if I can find old photographs I will post them. I recall it had great forestock molding, and a raised area underneath the side facings for the forward extension of the guard to be mounted on/in. It was an eye-catcher no matter what southern state it was from.

To get started, I am posting a patchbox, taken off a severely damaged butt stock, that I think is likely from South Carolina. The shattered butt had inletting for several diamond shaped inlays, long gone, with a large one in the cheek and smaller ones at/near the wrist on either side. When I see an unidentified brass patchbox that is symetrical from side to side, almost as if the pattern was folded in half, the outline cut, then opened back up so each side of the box is a mirror image of the other [if it's not on a New York rifle], I immediately think of South Carolina. Anyway, this is for starters in an effort to determine what South Carolina rifles look like... at least some of them that we can identify. 

Shelby Gallien

[AZshot]

This is a commendable thread.  I'd like to learn more, some of my family (and others in Mills River, NC) seem to have migrated down to SC in the middle of the 1800s, they would have taken some of their guns and perhaps styles with them.  I know there were better jobs and maybe land in SC, and it's not far as the crow flies.  It seems the migrations were South, seldom back North uphill.  From those I've studied anyway.  MESDA has two SC rifles, one attributed. 

https://mesda.org/item/collections/longrifle/21810/


https://mesda.org/item/collections/long-rifle/2124/


It would be good to learn where the gunsmiths were coming from, that would help in reading their styles.  For example, did most come up from the low country and Charleston?  Or down from NC?

[AZshot]

I'm also related to General Paul Quattlebaum, a famous SC Confederate who defended Colombia.  A family story is that they made rifles, so before I started hunting NC mountain rifles, I had tried to find a Quattlebaum rifle.  It took most of my life, then a kindly friend went to the museums in Colombia and another place and take photos for me, before he passed (Thanks Buck "Haggis").  There is a flintlock Quattlebaum and also an Elija Hall rifle or two.

Quattlebaum (top), Elijah Hall (bottom):



Percussion Elijah Hall (I note the bent trigger tip, I think it was you that said these are a SC feature at times):

[AZshot]

Another Hall, and discusses the close relationship (and likely gunsmithing talks).

https://digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/flc/id/191/

[Kmcmichael]

I am interested in this. My forth and fifth grandfathers fought under A.P. Hill, all under Sumpter. They were living near Kings mountain and spent that entire year in the SC militia. I suspect they would have had some surplus arms as they were not wealthy. Their military records have no reference to arms. I suppose they were expected to provide their own? Is 1780 before the time of these builders?

[heinz]

Shelby, thanks for starting this up.  I tried to get something going from an old thread in gun building but I was ignored.

There is the Rev War rifle, RCA 121, reworked by Durs Egg and thought to be a "Spartansburg" gun.  I think at that time it would have been the 96 district.  This gun belonged to  John Thomas Jr of the Sparta Rifles.  The Sparta Rifles were raised in the area that would become Spartansburg.

I am compiling a list of the South Carolina guns in Jerry Nobel's 4 volumes and will share that when I am done. 

i believe the upstate Carolina guns were influenced by smiths coming down the Great Wagon Road into North Carolina.  Mecklenburg is about a day on horseback from present Spartansburg.  In addition to frontier folk, the Cherokee Nation furnished a customer base across the Enoree River.  The Beardens and the Gillespies were in South Carolina before relocating to North Carolina.  Pleasant Wilson of Clay County Ky was born in Spartansburg and may have apprenticed there.

As I find more I will let you know.  I am in the SC upstate now, so geographically close.

[gibster]

Here are a few pictures of a rifle that I have that definitely has a southern flavor to it and I have wondered if SC could be a possibility.  It's unsigned, original flint and original length barrel.  Let me know your thoughts.

[wildcatter]

Gibster,

Nice rifle! thanks for sharing! I'll study it this evening and try and hazard a guess. Couple of questions, based on the lock plate photo has it been repaired through the wrist area? Is the patchbox lid domed? How long is the tang and how long is the barrel. How long is it from the end of the front trigger guard finial to the first barrel pin? Looks like the first pin could be past the entry pipe but there is hole above the wear plate that could be a pin?

Matt

[gibster]

Thanks Matt. The wrist hasn't been repaired and the patch box lid isn't domed. I'll measure the tang and barrel later this evening and take a look at the first barrel pin.  I'm thinking that it is what you are seeing above the wear plate, but will check to be sure.

[Hungry Horse]

 For some reason this rifle has a Georgia feel to it. When I say Georgia, I primarily am talking about the Kennedy’s, and the Higgins families of gunsmiths. They were both trained in gunsmithing in North Carolina, but developed they’re own style when they moved to Georgia. It’s a little too reserved, and devoid of decoration for a Higgins piece, but might be an unsigned Kennedy.

  Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

In the above message I was referring to the brass mounted flintlock rifle.

  Hungry Horse

[mbriggs]

Here are some additional photos of the Poyas rifle I sold to MESDA in 2019.


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I purchased this outstanding little silver mounted rifle at the J. Davis Gun Museum auction in Oklahoma in 2019 and knew that M.E.S.D.A. was searching for outstanding silver items made in the South and thought this would qualify.  They agreed and purchased it from me.

I am waiting for someone to add some photos of a great William Reed rifle from South Carolina.  I know two people who own relief-carved examples by him and have seen two wonderful all silver mounted examples by him.

Michael

[gibster]

Matt - The barrel is swamped and is 44 5/15 inches long. The tang is 4 inches long.  The hole you see above the wear plate is the first barrel pin.  I was looking at the patch box lid and it follows the contour if the butt plate.  Whether that would be considered domed or not, I don't know.
Thanks

Hungry Horse - I appreciate your thoughts.  An unsigned Kennedy would be great, but I don't know.  I've owned a couple in the past including one that was signed D Kennedy, but no longer have any of them for comparison.

[Eric Kettenburg]

There was a rifle sold at a J Julia auction a few years ago that was a 19th century restock of 18th century components.  It is all in silver and the box (yes cast silver) is marked "J E Colhoun Pendleton SC 1785."  I know I've mentioned it here previously.  Looking at the components (not the restock), they were clearly was made in the same shop that made RCA 42 if not the same guy.  It must have been an exceptionally expensive rifle originally.

In 1785 that guy was almost certainly Jacob Loesch up in Salem NC.

[Hungry Horse]

Gibster, I’ve never seen a complete Kennedy rifle, but I have seen an accumulation of furniture from several Kennedy rifles. The last of the Hiram Kennedy’s, not the junior, likely the third moved from Alabama to California. They established the family ranch in the remote hills of Lake County. His son Jack related a story of old Hiram getting mad at the lack of room in the families modest dwelling one winter, and declaring that muzzleloaders weren’t no good for nothin’ scooped up an armload of muzzleloader out of a corner, marched out the back door, and threw them into the creek. The parts I viewed were salvaged over the years from the creek bed during the summer when the water was low. Unfortunately little of the iron parts survived.

  Hungry Horse

[mbriggs]

Eric,
The 1785 sliver mounted rifle was restocked by Happoldt of Charleston, S.C. in the 1850's using the silver mounted parts from an earlier rifle likely made in Salem (and probably by Loesch.)

The Happoldt rifle was purchased by Clemson University.  Will Hiott, who manages their historic properties allowed me to come down and photograph the rifle for my 2020 book on the Salem Longrifle School.

Here are the photos.








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Happoldt was able to reuse the silver patchbox, side plate, trigger guard, and butt-plate from the 1785 rifle.

Michael

[AZshot]

My next post will revolve around my Paul Quattlebaum rifle I have on loan to a museum.  Quattlebaum as mentioned previously was a gunsmith near Leesville and Lexington west of Columbia SC.  Typically used single trigger, almost military style trigger guards. A very interesting family,  they had a rifle factory, saw mill, and a flour mill. Hoping to attach pictures tonight, have to dig them out of my storage drive.  Also, on several signed and strongly attributed SC guns a distinctive trait is for the first barrel pin to be past the rear entry pipe. Shelby, your patchbox remnant that you started this post with is very similar to this one, I wish I had all my pictures but this is the best I could do currently. 

Wow, it's a pleasure to hear from someone who own's a Quattlebaum!  Gen Paul Quattlebaum was my ggggreat Grandfather, my great grandfather married a Quattlebaum and my dad told me many stories about the gun works, the Civil War, and Gen Quattlebaum's name on a plaque at the SC Capital, for it's defense.  He used to go to Quattlebaum reunions in the 40s and great aunts would show him closets full of Civil War uniforms, swords, and such.  We have two artifact from that time, a medical book carried in the war by a relative, and a broken off sword tip that he was allowed to pry out of the back kitchen door frame, that HAD BEEN THERE SINCE THE YANKEES ATTACKED!  This is from the known history of when the slaves threw the burning beds out the windows after the Yankees had thrown torches on them, to save the house.  Many more stories.....it's great to SEE the rifle! 

[Tanselman]

Here is the relic butt stock that came with the detached patchbox at the start of this thread. The butt shows that the rifle was badly broken through the wrist and was apparently repaired several times, using many screws, nails, and a metal overlay at one point. While hard to see, there are several inlettings for diamond inlays, and the cheek has hard-to-see inletting for a moon with  tips pointing down. The oval cheekpiece appears to have been cross-hatched, or checkered, along the bottom half. Not shown is inletting for toe plate, about 3.5" long with an elongated spade-shaped final.
I think this was most likely a South Carolina rifle, when all in one piece, but would appreciate any other opinions.

Shelby Gallien

[Hungry Horse]

 I was pondering South Carolina’s historic intolerance for tyranny, and their willingness to lead the charge to end it, and speculated that maybe thats why the survival rate of South Carolina guns is so small.

  Hungry Horse

[Marcruger]

I am going to post photos of a relic John Murphy rifle that I received via Walter Hill under a separate thread to minimize bulk on this thread.  It is a Golden Age 1835 longrifle with exquisite detailing.  God Bless,   Marc

[heinz]

Hungry Horse.   One of the factors you have to consider in upstate SC is the Cherokee War did not have treaty until 1760.  During the war, folks were constantly moving out or forming up and others made free use of the property left behind; others being both Native Americans and whites.  The period after the Cherokee war was notably lawless with large roving outlaw bands.  The government in Charles Town could not control the backcountry which led to the Regulator movement.  The outlaw bands were eclectic, with whites, Native Americans, and runaway slaves.  The regulators were mostly Scots Irish and German.  (Walter Edgar, "South Carolina, a History)

The Cherokee aligned with the British and lost most of their remaining SC land after the Revolutionary War. A lot of rifles went into the mountains with the tribes. A lot of free or cheap land in the upcountry opened up.  So from 1755 to 1781 lots of turmoil chaos and warfare in the upstate.  Edgar does not talk specifically about gunsmiths but he notes that in the Piedmont sections of both Carolinas, the tradesmen were mostly from PA and Va and German or Scots with their raw material and supplies coming up from Charleston.

[AZshot]

I have a signed, definite Upstate SC rifle coming.  It will be from the mid 19th century, percussion back lock. I notice it has the same angled wood in front of the lock plate as Michael Briggs photo (from above) shows:



Could this be a SC feature?  I have seen it on other back action locks from other states though perhaps it's common in SC rifles. 

[Levy]

I think Peden rifles have been talked about some on the Forum here in the past.  I think they are from Greenville, SC.  I have two friends with Peden rifles.  James Levy

[BOB HILL]

There is a Peden rifle in the Lexington, S. C. Museum, as well as the one Cheny Looper has posted ere before. They both have a step in the heel of the  buttplate.
Bob

[AZshot]

Yes, some of those (with back locks) have the angled step of wood in front of the lock too.