Johannes / John Rupp of Macungie

[Eric Kettenburg]

Cool find Scott!    I'm sure it is the same Jacob Rupp and I believe Tilghman Rupp was his son (and grandson of Herman Rupp the first - yes there were others...).  I didn't dig into this family much beyond @ 1820 however because I'm not a Rupp genealogist, I'm simply focusing upon immigrant George and his two gunsmith sons.  Just going by memory of things I came across, however, I'm positive this is the same family and certainly positive it's the same Jacob Rupp in Upper Macungie.  I believe I remember finding some references to Tilghman Rupp who is surely the same guy noted here, and he apparently became fairly well-known and well-respected in the county.  I think there's a Tilghman Street, or was, somewhere down there near 'Ruppsville' area in Macungie that was named after him.

[spgordon]

I'm not a Rupp genealogist ...

[Eric Kettenburg]

Also, I don't rip my way out of a couch completely naked... 

(Is there a man in that couch?)

[rlm]

This is a thread that just keeps on going! I don’t remember another that has been so informative and also entertaining. Thanks to all who have contributed so freely.

[Craig Wilcox]

Eric, forgive me if it has been asked and answered, but it seems that in one of the accounts early on in this string, that Mr. Rupp's account was listed in Pounds, Shillings, and Pence on one of the early 1800's documents.

When did the USA change from the British monetary system to our dollar/decimal system?

Had my 1-3rd school years over in GB - still have scars on the back of my hands from the teacher hitting me with a metal-edged ruler, telling me to "Get it right!"

Working in Bases 20 and 12 (and 21 if we were speaking of Guineas) gave me a life-long hatred of algebra and trig!  But I do love the old English coins, right down to the farthing!  Had a bit of revenge when I once made a front sight of a shilling, showing George VI's name on the side of the sight.  And yes, was in south London when he died and Elizabeth II was crowned - we had to learn to draw the crown, orb, and scepter.  First time I watched TV was her coronation.

Thanks for a response to my rambling.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Craig:  I'll be the first to say that I have no idea at all why things were still being accounted in pounds/shillings/pence up into the early 19th century in America, but they were.  Peter Angstadt's estate, accounting by Jacob Mertz and finalized by January 13, 1819, is also in pounds/shillings/pence.  This is just about two decades into the 19th century!  George Rupp's estate was accounted entirely the same way.

I'm sure there are professionals here who can perhaps offer an explanation.  Scott, Bob, anyone?  I just tend to focus on specific small 'slices' or individuals but I'm sure others can offer more in the way of 'the big picture.'

[spgordon]

The new republic adopted the decimal system in 1792 and American coinage shifted to dollars, etc. But apparently accounting continued to use pounds/shillings/pence for generations. Jefferson had advocated for the decimal system in the 1780s--but he perceived the proposal as a radical innovation. Nobody had experience in the decimal system and, simple as it seems to us, it required everybody to learn an entirely new system. Many didn't, or couldn't, or resisted as long as they could. And, for many things, decimals weren't (and still aren't!) so easy: "Decimals do not correspond with the simplest measures of division. Halves, quarters and eighths are more instantly recognizable and appear in most early numerate cultures. It is the transcendence of such fractions that may have contributed to the delay in switching to a decimal basis of counting. Moreover, Americans, in common with Europeans, still tended to quantify goods in dozens, since twelve divided conveniently by two, three, four and six."

That quotation is from Robert Garson's "Counting Money: The US Dollar and American Nationhood, 1781-1820," Journal of American Studies (2001), a really good article. Here's a few paragraphs (pp. 41-42) that address Craig's question:


Even though the United States had adopted the decimal dollar as its sole money, Americans continued to think and trade in the old sterling-based currencies. The persistence of old money was not just the consequence of man's difficulty in adjusting to new systems of money and counting. It was reinforced by the provision of ready reckoners and other conversion tables that took away the incentive to reorientate to a new system of counting.

The Coinage Act of 1792 provided that all federal accounts were to be kept in the new currency. The provisions did not compel the states or individuals to follow suit. Indeed, private financial transactions continued to be conducted in a mixture of US dollars and the pounds, shillings and pence of the various states. Surprisingly, the two parallel systems lasted for about a generation. It was only in the late 1820s that transactions in pounds, shillings and pence became virtually extinct.

It appears that many Americans not only coped with the dual system but preferred it. A few examples illustrate the coexistence of the two currencies. In Pennsylvania traders in arts and crafts throughout the 1790s advertised their wares in dollars and pounds. Engravers tended to offer their portraits and landscapes priced in dollars. J. J. Boudier offered portraits using a "Physiognotrace" at 2 dollars each in December 1796, although a miniature painter offered his portrait services at 5 pounds each. Individuals clearly thought interchangeably. In March 1794 Joseph Cooke, a goldsmith, advertised for journeymen with a pay of 9s a day, and in the same advertisement offered a bonus of "a pair of silver shoe buckles worth 8 dollars." Similarly, rewards in Pennsylvania offered for the return and recovery of runaway apprentices or lost animals were sometimes in pounds, sometimes in dollars, although, by the turn of the nineteenth century, pounds were rarer. Land prices and. rents tended to be quoted in pounds, but this is explained by the fact that tax and lease assessments predated the formation of the republic.

Here's a link to the entire article (let me know if it doesn't work):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjwxlqd11f4fwlh/27556907.pdf?dl=0

[Craig Wilcox]

You gentlemen are certainly thorough in your responses!

I had thought that something like that might have been the case.  Many of us are resistant to change, and I see that this is a long-held tradition!

Currently, we have two systems of measurement, the inch-foot-yard measurements, and the metric system.  As I was an environmental scientist for many years, and had to deal with homeowner's, the legal system, and my scientific colleagues, I of necessity had to be fluent in both systems.

Then, of course, we also have fathoms, chains, cables, acres, and so on.  The world is, indeed, a complex place in these times.  Toss in decades and scores, and a few weirder terms.

One that I struggle with is "alquiries", a system of land measurement still currently used in Brazil.  And some states there  have different definitions of just what an "alquirie" is.  It can be equal to 6  acres, or to three hectares.  Fortunately, I no longer own land in Brazil, so it no longer matters to me.

As long as 2.54 cm = 1", and 454,54 grams = 1 pound, I'll be OK.  And BTW, 20 dwt = 1 ozt!

[spgordon]

One that I struggle with is "alquiries", a system of land measurement still currently used in Brazil.  And some states there  have different definitions of just what an "alquirie" is.  It can be equal to 6  acres, or to three hectares.  Fortunately, I no longer own land in Brazil, so it no longer matters to me.

This is exactly why I've never bought land in Brazil! Much too complicated. 

[Craig Wilcox]

And if no one is living on it, squatters can make claim to it!  Most everyone has a caretaker living on their land full-time.

That is out in the country, which is beautiful in southern Brazil.  Small mountains, lots of rocky streams.

[mr. no gold]

Craig, must be the southern climes. Hawaii has a similar problem with unwanted 'house guests.' A caretaker and/or a trustworthy neighbor is a must!
Dick