Small Caliber Smoothbore for Small Game?

[Panzerschwein]

We’ve had a discussion here about small caliber smoothbore fowling pieces being used for small game hunting in the 18th C in America. Some members here have shared references about 1/2” bore (.50 caliber) smoothbores being favored in this role during the period.

My great passion in the woods is squirrel hunting. If one were to commission such a gun, how effective do you think a .50 cal smoothbore loaded with shot would actually be in the squirrel woods? I’m thinking it’d be about like a .410? Would it be a decent choice for the task?

Just making sure it’ll be effective before investing in the build of such a gun.

Thoughts?

[Gene Slodysko]

I don’t know from experience but my thoughts are that it would be fine for squirrels. Most squirrel loads my daughter shots out of the 20ga are 70gr 2f Swiss with an 1 1/8oz 5/6 lead shot. I don’t know why a 50 cal smoothbore couldn’t shoot that load, slightly lower at 65 gr or even slightly higher at 75 gr. I always was told the benefit of a smaller bore is that the pattern holds tighter longer. But honestly no clue.

[Pukka Bundook]

Bore size has nothing to do with patterns, Gene.
A  cylinder bored  .410 shoots about the same pattern at all normal distances as a cylinder bored  12 gauge.
what the 12 does is give a denser pattern as there is more shot in the charge.

I would think a half inch bore would work well for squirrels, as a lot of squirrels  get shot within say 25 yards, and a half inch bore firing say 5/8 to 3/4 ounce no 6 or 7  will pattern well enough at that range.

[Daryl]

Sounds good to me, up to perhaps 3/4oz. shot and maybe up to 60/65gr. 2F would be my end goal, or so.
Of course, starting under that and patterning would be necessary.

[Hungry Horse]

 My sons first shot load ( he was six )out of his 410 trade gun was at a clay pigeon at 30 yards ( he didn’t get on it soon enough) but he vaporized it with an ounce of #6’s and 40 grains of 2F. The pattern is kind of strung out, but on a sitting squirrel it would be deadly. The smaller the bore, the more they behave like a full choke.

 Hungry Horse

[walt53]

My 28 gauge shoots real good patterns with 40 grns of 3 f and anything from1/2 ounce to 7/8 ounces to about 23 yards.walt.

[RonT]

No problems today with my .540" bore English Fowler.  Left to Right crosser, ~35 yds.
Cheers,
R

[rich pierce]

No problems today with my .540" bore English Fowler.  Left to Right crosser, ~35 yds.
Cheers,
R

Somebody knows how to shoot!  Nicely done.

[Dphariss]

We’ve had a discussion here about small caliber smoothbore fowling pieces being used for small game hunting in the 18th C in America. Some members here have shared references about 1/2” bore (.50 caliber) smoothbores being favored in this role during the period.

My great passion in the woods is squirrel hunting. If one were to commission such a gun, how effective do you think a .50 cal smoothbore loaded with shot would actually be in the squirrel woods? I’m thinking it’d be about like a .410? Would it be a decent choice for the task?

Just making sure it’ll be effective before investing in the build of such a gun.

Thoughts?

44 and 50 caliber were  very common rifle caliber as well.
Myself I would use a 32-40 cal rifle for Squirrels. But I hate picking shot when eating and with cyl bored guns wounding is a real possibility. Squirrels can pack a lot of lead. I shot one once that had been wounded sometime before by a guy with either 22 short to 22 long, I heard the shot. Both lungs side to side and the squirrel was setting on a limb when I head shot him. Dying but would have been crow bait had I not shot him.  Surely and aberration but squirrels are tough. 

[Pukka Bundook]

Hungry Horse,
Bore size has nothing to do with spread, unless you are talking just a few feet.
it's general boring or choke that tightens up pattern.Yes, some bore always shoot tighter than others, but this goes for all bores. there is no general rule that says small bores shoot tighter.
If interested, a copy of GT Garwood's book "Shooting facts and  and fancies" will clear it up.
His works are excellent, and as a civil engineer was not the type to go off hearsay.

All the best,
Richard.

[snapper]

Richard

I just bought that book off ebay.   A few copies on Abe Books as well.

The author is Thomas, Gough.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Fleener

[Panzerschwein]

I’ve got a wad of cash to throw at a builder to make me one of these for next squirrel season.

Need a firm answer guys. Enable me! Lol

[snapper]

Anyone tell you a .50 cal won't work?

You like to squirrel hunt.  Where you hunt how close can you get to them?  In my woods you would go hungry with a shotgun in the squirrel woods.  Unless you are deer hunting then they crawl up your leg.

Does not Kimber offer a smooth barrel?

Fleener

[alacran]

Skwirl hunting is my favorite. 410 in a modern gun would be fine.
If you don't really like eating the rodents, .410 in a ML would work. Anything smaller than 28 gauge would occasionally kill a skwirl, if the range was less than 10 yards.

[bob in the woods]

Based on my past experience with a .54 smoothbore that I used most successfully [ and foolishly sold]  that is what I would recommend. From squirrels to partridge, it performed wonderfully.  The new owner of that gun has taken turkeys with it.
If you have your heart set on a .50, I'm sure it would work fine for squirrels . You could have the bore made in the manner of the Colerain "turkey" barrel. ie choked.
That would negate the ability of shooting round balls from it, but as a dedicated squirrel gun that wouldn't matter

[Pukka Bundook]

Snapper/Fleener,

Yes GT Garwood wrote under the name Gough Thomas.  (That's the GT part)
I had enjoyed his writing in "The Shooting Times"  for decades when still home in the UK.  His other books are brilliant  reading as well!

Best,
Richard.

[Daryl]

Years ago, I made up a .44 cal smoothbore. With it, I had bunny accuracy to about 50yards with a .433" patched round ball & using a .410 plastic wad over hard card, over powder,
broke 10 straight birds at rendezvous, winning against some 12 and 10 bore SxS's.
So - the small calibre will shoot shot, just not a lot of it. I seem to recall I used 1/2ounce of 8's. The .44 cal. might not hold enough larger shot(5's or 6's) for squirrels.

[hanshi]

A .45 would be closer to a .410 than would a .50.  The .50 would be a step up from from a .45 and so on.  I've always liked 20s and my current gun is a 20 ga.  A .45 to .50 will do well with loads carefully worked up.

[Gene Slodysko]

As I said earlier I have no experience, but a gun builder once told me you can load a smoothbore how ever you want as long as you don’t go crazy. So if a .50 cal rifle has no problem shooting 65-75grains of powder, why would a .50 cal smoothbore. So start around 65 grains of 2f and 7/8-1 oz of shot and work yourself up a load. I bet you will find that it’s deadly for 25-30yds. You always could use some form of Skychiefs load structure.

[Daryl]

A .50 cal rifle, if made well, will handle a LOT more powder than 110gr.3F or 2F.

[AMartin]

If it were me , only a personal opinion , I would either go with a 28ga (55caliber) or a 58cal, 24gauge ..
This will make a super super slim barrel and with the proper weight .

Allen

[Panzerschwein]

If it were me , only a personal opinion , I would either go with a 28ga (55caliber) or a 58cal, 24gauge ..
This will make a super super slim barrel and with the proper weight .

Allen

Thanks, Allen! I’m leaning towards a 28 gauge or .54 smoothbore barrel.

[Daryl]

I shot grouse back in the 70's with this rifle, a .58, using 75gr. 2F and 1 1/8ox. of shot & cardboard wads. Worked very well to about 20yards.

[Marcruger]

I have downed a lot of squirrels in my years.  Never one with a shotgun/fowler.  I'd want a small bore rifle with the best barrel rifling I could find.  There is a Green Mountain swamped .40 in a tube here to be made into a squirrel rifle some day.  When I think squirrel, I think precision.  That said, I dated a girl whose mom said, "Oh you are quite sporting using a rifle.  I use a 12 gauge."    :-)   

[Panzerschwein]

I have downed a lot of squirrels in my years.  Never one with a shotgun/fowler.  I'd want a small bore rifle with the best barrel rifling I could find.  There is a Green Mountain swamped .40 in a tube here to be made into a squirrel rifle some day.  When I think squirrel, I think precision.  That said, I dated a girl whose mom said, "Oh you are quite sporting using a rifle.  I use a 12 gauge."    :-)

12 gauge for squirrel seems a bit too much wouldn’t you say?? Lol.