Author Topic: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered  (Read 4489 times)

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2023, 06:38:10 PM »
Burrs on the tang near the breech are indeed part of the rifles history. Impossible to know how many times the plug was removed but could have been damaged if done incorrectly one time. The nipple was replaced during it's history so the plug might have been removed at that time to see if the rifle was safe to shoot. The plug might also have been damaged by not removing the drum first. I'm not ever going to shoot it or check if it can be.

Not all Soddy guns had oval lock panels (viewed from the side) but it was a common feature. It is flat on the bottom where the triggers and guard are located. I can take more pictures if there's enough interest in that feature.

Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2023, 08:09:10 PM »
I was wondering if the guns attributed to John sr. Wouldn’t have more N.C. Features, while John Jr. Being born and raised in Tennessee might have adopt the style of that region. Nothin else to do it rainin’.

Hungry Horse

Yes maybe huh?

Here's part of page 2 of this topic where I quoted Robin C. Hale in his Tennessee Rifles article 1971

"For a poor but serviceable photograph of one of Johnny Clements rifles, I
refer you to plate 66, #1 of Dillin's Kentucky Rifle."

I bought the book just so I could see the picture he was talking about. It's the top rifle in the photo below.




Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2023, 08:28:53 PM »
I'm doing a little research in Ancestry and found a few things.

John Clements born in NC about 1819 died near Soddy 1875 occupation gunsmith. 1840 census no luck yet finding him but several possibilities various spellings etc. 1850 census near Soddy occupation blacksmith 1860 census near Soddy occupation gunsmith.
     His son John Clements 1841-1896 born near Soddy occupation gunsmith.
     Interesting another son James Clements 1847-1928 occupation blacksmith.
 

John Sr bought land Soddy, Hamilton County, Tennessee 8 Dec 1842
« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 09:04:16 PM by Daniel Coats »
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2023, 08:26:30 PM »
Two more pictures today of the lock and triggers to help identify the maker and help date the rifle.

If it's John Clements Sr then it's probably post 1840. If it's John Clements Jr then it's probably post 1860.

Opinions are welcome.





Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2023, 09:08:36 PM »
I've had two Clements rifles.  I purchased them in eastern Marion County in Whitwell. Neither had a patchbox, both had 44 inch long barrels and were .36 - .38 caliber, also had identical nosecaps.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline taterbug

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2023, 10:30:52 AM »
Just curious if those would have been a 'bought' lock and triggers at the time, or handmade by the gunmaker?  I suppose it may depend on the exact time frame when it was built?

Still trying to get some ideas about how the area was getting 'settled'

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2023, 05:53:18 PM »
My guess is the lock and triggers are store bought but may have been modified just like builders of today. What I'm sure of is there are no markings. The overall quality of the rifle is better than the average Soddy I've handled and does not appear to be a restock or converted from flint.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2023, 10:07:50 PM »
My observation for today. Both the tang and the toe plate were made by forge welding two pieces together. Could be from scavenging material during the original build especially the toe plate. The tang might be from scavenging also since it doesn't look the same as some parts of the rifle.

The breech plug might not be original because the area just in front of it will trap a patch. The rust on the lock doesn't look as old as the barrel at the breech. The wood at the top of the lock plate has either worn away or wasn't there to begin with if it was originally flintlock. I don't think the lock on the gun was originally flintlock and seems to fit the mortise well.   

If it is a Clements gun then it would seem unlikely it was ever flint because of census analysis indicating it's at least post 1840.

Help me out here boys?
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2023, 12:18:58 AM »
Do you think it was flint originally?

Who do you think built the rifle?

When do you think it was made?

Where do you think it was made?
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2023, 06:22:00 PM »
 ;) ;).. I'll stick with my observations I made there in Knoxville when I first examined this rifle .... was always a cap gun,...made by John Clements Jr. around 1870-80 in his shop near Soddy,... a nice example and you are fortunate to have it,.... regards ,.. Cades Cove Fiddler

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2023, 06:31:44 PM »
Thank you Dana!

John Clements Jr is on the 1880 census near Soddy with his occupation listed as gunsmith.

I'm convinced you're correct and appreciate the second look.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"