Acorn vs pineapple?

[Robert Wolfe]

Which is older, generally, an acorn or pineapple finial on a trigger guard? 

[Mattox Forge]

The acorn is older.
Mike

[Seth Isaacson]

Acorn is older and was replaced in the UK fairly rapidly by the pineapple finial starting around the mid-1780s, but you'll still find acorn finials on guns by some makers later on too.

[Fullstock longrifle]

So what time period did the acorn finial first show up? Curious because I致e been told it was a late 18th century feature.

[smart dog]

Hi,
The acorn shows up in the 1770s.  It is replaced by the pineapple during the late 1780s but persists on cheaper trade and hardware store guns.

dave

[Robert Wolfe]

Thanks for the education!

[Fullstock longrifle]

Hi,
The acorn shows up in the 1770s.  It is replaced by the pineapple during the late 1780s but persists on cheaper trade and hardware store guns.

dave

Thanks Dave

[smylee grouch]

Not intentionally trying to hijack this topic but if the acorn is older would that " flaming pot" on an Turvey style trigger guard be older yet?

[Mike Brooks]

Acorn-1765 is the earliest.

[Mike Brooks]

I might add, there isn't a real good reproduction available. The rifle shoppe sells one....but it's the rifle shoppe.....

[Feltwad]

You will find that there were many different trigger guard  finials used from the late 1690,s too 1770s  such has the  acanthus, shell. and Husk. The acorn is associated to the late 1760s which was popular up till the 1810-20 The pineapple became popular mostly for sporting sh0tguns and rifles  in the 1786 up till the end of the percussion era different finials  over lapped each other in  popular periods .
Feltwad

[Clark Badgett]

I might add, there isn't a real good reproduction available. The rifle shoppe sells one....but it's the rifle shoppe.....

Mike, if you have a series number for it, I値l see if they have any next time I知 down there.

[Mike Brooks]

I might add, there isn't a real good reproduction available. The rifle shoppe sells one....but it's the rifle shoppe.....

Mike, if you have a series number for it, I値l see if they have any next time I知 down there.

Beats me, I just sold my catalogs. Robert Wolfe sent me the casting to be engraved, that's the only reason I knew it existed. Contact him, he can probably tell you what you need to know.

[Robert Wolfe]

The one Mike is talking about is Rifle Shoppe 613TG. They list several acorn finial trigger guards with different numbers but at least several appear to be the same from the pics?

[Mattox Forge]

Here is the photo from the catalog.



Mike

[Von Hayek]

As far as dating, I'm assuming that architectural fashion walks hand in hand with other art forms. The Maryland State House, which was constructed in the 1770s and is the oldest state house in the country that has been continually used for legislative purposes, has a very large acorn atop its dome.

[Clark Badgett]

The one Mike is talking about is Rifle Shoppe 613TG. They list several acorn finial trigger guards with different numbers but at least several appear to be the same from the pics?

All right. I値l look into their in stock status next time I head down that way.

[RAT]

It is believed by some (including myself) that the pineapple motif came about to honor the voyages that Captain James Cook made in the late 18th century.

First voyage 1768-1771
Second voyage 1772-1775
Third voyage 1776-1779

Cook was killed by the Hawaiians in 1779.

We start to see the pineapple finial on trigger guards around 1800 or a bit before.

[JV Puleo]

A very good illustration of why no one should use catalogs like this as a reference...practically everything in the description is wrong.

No Ketland gun predates approximately 1759/60 and examples that may fit in that time frame are extremely rare.
William K went into business under his own name in 1801...no "WK" marked gun predates that.
The skeleton side plate shown was in use well past 1800...it was an earlier sty\le that continued on for export guns long after it was "old fashioned" at home.

I won't go on boring the readers but I've seen the Rifle Shoppe catalog cited as a reference  many times. It is isn't...

[Mattox Forge]

I use them for the photos. It is a very good catalog of full sized images, which is invaluable as a reference.
Mike

[lexington1]

I need to make a timeline chart. Pineapple, potted plant, acorn. I know approx., but I still can get the date ranges mixed up.

[JV Puleo]

It is a very nebulous dating tool...probably applicable to only the best quality English guns aside from saying the acorn is older and the pineapple later. About 99% of the guns we see on this side of the Atlantic were made for export and little attention was paid to the latest fashions. Export guns frequently used decorative motifs that were somewhat out of current fashion. You need a great deal more to go on than a trigger guard finial to arrive at anything like a reasonable date.

[Feltwad]

It is a very nebulous dating tool...probably applicable to only the best quality English guns aside from saying the acorn is older and the pineapple later. About 99% of the guns we see on this side of the Atlantic were made for export and little attention was paid to the latest fashions. Export guns frequently used decorative motifs that were somewhat out of current fashion. You need a great deal more to go on than a trigger guard finial to arrive at anything like a reasonable date.

I agree different designs did not change overnight  the acorn  finial was still used in 1800- -1820  especially on flintlocks.
Feltwad

[RAT]

Older styles can certainly show up on later guns. True... but going by the policy of not dating something earlier than it's latest feature, I think we can safely say that if it has a pineapple finial it doesn't date BEFORE approx the 1790's. So it goes both ways.

[Seth Isaacson]

I would say mid-1780s rather than 1790s for the pineapple, but yes, that premise generally works.