Gun Price Range

[Von Hayek]

I am interested possibly collecting Kentucky Rifles, but I really have no idea what ballpark prices are in. Can someone give me a sense of the range of prices, i.e. a poor condition, poorly built Kentucky Rifle to perhaps a very nice original gun from a known maker?

[Dobyns]

$100-$100K

[Von Hayek]

So if you are looking at a rifle in good condition from a known maker, are we automatically in the 5-digit price range?

[rich pierce]

$4-6k can get you a lot of gun.

[Mike Brooks]

It's really easy to get burned if you don't know exactly what you're looking at. lots of fakes out there as well as misrepresented guns. I know several collectors who stick to contemporary guns because of this sort of stuff. I myself have been fooling around with old guns for 40 years now and don't feel I know enough about KY rifles not to get burned.
 Buyer beware! Especially if you don't know much about these guns.

[Habu]

So if you are looking at a rifle in good condition from a known maker, are we automatically in the 5-digit price range?

It will depend on how you define "good condition" and "known maker".  As Rich wrote, $4k-$6k can get you a lot of rifle.  On the other hand, rarity/condition/demand bump prices for some rifles up into the 5-6 figure range. 

I've been thinking about this a lot lately: a friend has asked me to see to the disposition of his collection when he passes.  In today's market, we figure some of his collection will go in the $2k-$3k range (due to factors like lesser-known makers, unknown provenance, condition).  Others will go for more  due to the maker and condition, or to known provenance (as he puts it in one case, "almost 250 years of paper"), or both.  A Dickert in poor/poorly-restored condition is still a Dickert, but one in good condition is worth more. 

You can get an idea of current prices by picking a maker (or several) that appeal to you, then searching completed auctions.  Look at the maker, condition, provenance, etc but watch for cases where prices seem out of line.  "Too low" often means questions about condition, past restoration, or authenticity; "too high" often seems to suggest two guys just got carried away in a bidding war. 

[Von Hayek]

It's really easy to get burned if you don't know exactly what you're looking at. lots of fakes out there as well as misrepresented guns. I know several collectors who stick to contemporary guns because of this sort of stuff. I myself have been fooling around with old guns for 40 years now and don't feel I know enough about KY rifles not to get burned.
 Buyer beware! Especially if you don't know much about these guns.

This is excellent advice, thank you. I don't pretend to know anything about these guns. I have some books, some interest, and that's it. It's a shame that you have to become a scholar in order to avoid the unscrupulous. Though I imagine that in this market, as in others, there are reputable dealers.

Contemporary makers are certainly a viable option.

[Von Hayek]

So if you are looking at a rifle in good condition from a known maker, are we automatically in the 5-digit price range?

It will depend on how you define "good condition" and "known maker".  As Rich wrote, $4k-$6k can get you a lot of rifle.  On the other hand, rarity/condition/demand bump prices for some rifles up into the 5-6 figure range. 

I've been thinking about this a lot lately: a friend has asked me to see to the disposition of his collection when he passes.  In today's market, we figure some of his collection will go in the $2k-$3k range (due to factors like lesser-known makers, unknown provenance, condition).  Others will go for more  due to the maker and condition, or to known provenance (as he puts it in one case, "almost 250 years of paper"), or both.  A Dickert in poor/poorly-restored condition is still a Dickert, but one in good condition is worth more. 

You can get an idea of current prices by picking a maker (or several) that appeal to you, then searching completed auctions.  Look at the maker, condition, provenance, etc but watch for cases where prices seem out of line.  "Too low" often means questions about condition, past restoration, or authenticity; "too high" often seems to suggest two guys just got carried away in a bidding war.

I had no idea that online auctions were such a big part of collecting. I just saw one today linked in another thread. Good advice as well.

[jdm]

My advise  for what it's worth. Try to go to as many longrifle shows as you can . Handle them ask questions . Whats been done  if anything to it. Learn makers work that you like and see if the rifles for sale match up to what you have learned. Find a mentor  and seek out second opinions . Always buy what you like not whats hot at the moment.
 Sense these guns were not mass produced there may be only a few by a certain maker. If you want one by that maker you may have to settle for some restortaion.  After two hundred years every jack leg that has owned it has wanted to save it ,improve it or make it better than it was.   Winchesters ,Colts, cival war muskets were made by the thousands so finding one in excellant condition can be done with some effort. Longrifles you may never find one.
My last thoughts on this they are not an investment. I have always looked at it as  "What is this worth to me  to own this . "  Sometimes I had the money .Sometimes I didn' t.  One of the old K.R.A. guys said . " These things are like street cars . There will be an other one comming along in a minute ." I have always been happy with what I bought. Sometimes I've made money ,sometimes not so much.   Jim

[Von Hayek]

My advise  for what it's worth. Try to go to as many longrifle shows as you can . Handle them ask questions . Whats been done  if anything to it. Learn makers work that you like and see if the rifles for sale match up to what you have learned. Find a mentor  and seek out second opinions . Always buy what you like not whats hot at the moment.
 Sense these guns were not mass produced there may be only a few by a certain maker. If you want one by that maker you may have to settle for some restortaion.  After two hundred years every jack leg that has owned it has wanted to save it ,improve it or make it better than it was.   Winchesters ,Colts, cival war muskets were made by the thousands so finding one in excellant condition can be done with some effort. Longrifles you may never find one.
My last thoughts on this they are not an investment. I have always looked at it as  "What is this worth to me  to own this . "  Sometimes I had the money .Sometimes I didn' t.  One of the old K.R.A. guys said . " These things are like street cars . There will be an other one comming along in a minute ." I have always been happy with what I bought. Sometimes I've made money ,sometimes not so much.   Jim

I wish there was a way to "like" posts on the threads in this forum. I very much like this one. Wise words.

Pertaining to your advice about mentoring, I'm hoping to get involved with the local muzzleloading club and I'm sure there will be help there. And to your also sound advice about buying what I like, the rifles of the south appeal to me because the majority of my ancestors hail from there. I'm hoping the market is softer for these rifles than their more ornate northern brethren.

[120RIR]

You're starting at a good time in long rifle collecting history.  Prices have come down dramatically in the last 5-10 years after a period of wild auction/purchase prices artificially driven to obscene heights by a small group of collectors with bottomless pockets and in at least one very famous case, limited knowledge.  As I understand it, if nothing else, that group of collectors were in direct competition with each other which is great for an auction seller but not so much for everyone else.  From my limited time in the field, I have seen prices continue to decline and even a couple of my nicer purchases from just 4-5 years ago probably might not bring my original purchase prices today.  However, I'm not overly concerned.  I got my humble collection because I love the subject matter, not as investment....you'd do better with Nigerian crypto shares. There are several dealers out there with great reputations but as others have said...educate yourself first.  Most of all, have fun!

[homerifle]

Try Aspen Shade Kentucky rifles. He usually has a good variety of Kentucky's and a number of them are southern guns. He is a past president of the KRA and has collected for several years. His prices are in line with the auction houses without the 20 to 30% buyer's premium.

[utseabee]

I am interested possibly collecting Kentucky Rifles, but I really have no idea what ballpark prices are in. Can someone give me a sense of the range of prices, i.e. a poor condition, poorly built Kentucky Rifle to perhaps a very nice original gun from a known maker?

    My advice would be to attend a couple longrifle shows in your area and look first. Actually, JDM's post sums it up pretty well. There are plenty of small shows around where you can see and handle the rifles. A good many of the people at these shows are honest and will tell you what has been done to the rifle if you ask. Some of them will even point out the work to you. Don't be in a big hurry to buy right away, try to figure out what style you want. I would stay away from a poorly built contemporary or one in poor condition. There are quite a few really good builders out there today. As far as an original rifle goes, one from one of the better-known makers that hasn't been monkeyed with can fetch a lot of money. There are some nice unsigned rifles out there that can be had somewhat reasonably.  There are a couple of really good shows coming up that would be within a couple of hours from you. If you are willing to drive a little, I would recommend attending the Gunmakers Fair in Kempton PA held in July. There is a longrifle show in Martinsburg West Virginia in May and the Eastern PA Longrifle Show in September held in York Pa. If you would like information on some of the shows, PM me and I can get you some information on them. I think you can find a good first rifle between $3000 and $10,000

[Avlrc]

 Join the CLA https://www.longrifle.com/join-the-cla/
 & then you can attend regional shows  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=453.0

The WV Show at Martinsburg WV is coming up soon.

[Von Hayek]

Join the CLA https://www.longrifle.com/join-the-cla/
 & then you can attend regional shows  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=453.0

The WV Show at Martinsburg WV is coming up soon.

Joined.

I aim to be at the WV show.

[Ats5331]

Von Hayek,

There is excellent advice from the gentlemen on this thread, it's a great start.

Speaking of other threads, I would highly recommend checking out Brian LaMaster's new website. His auction is in another thread that I started. It looks like one of his goals with the new site is to create an educational platform for people like yourself who are looking to start collecting.

Brian is a great source of knowledge and gave me some advice when I first started collecting which has helped me in my selection of rifles to purchase. Another tip--when building rifles, it is a completely different ballgame when you can hold an original in your hands!!

Once you get a rifle, I would recommend joining the KRA. The CLA is great, but the KRA Show is probably the best in the country for original Kentucky/Pennsylvania Longrifles.

Good Luck!

[Von Hayek]

Von Hayek,

There is excellent advice from the gentlemen on this thread, it's a great start.

Speaking of other threads, I would highly recommend checking out Brian LaMaster's new website. His auction is in another thread that I started. It looks like one of his goals with the new site is to create an educational platform for people like yourself who are looking to start collecting.

Brian is a great source of knowledge and gave me some advice when I first started collecting which has helped me in my selection of rifles to purchase. Another tip--when building rifles, it is a completely different ballgame when you can hold an original in your hands!!

Once you get a rifle, I would recommend joining the KRA. The CLA is great, but the KRA Show is probably the best in the country for original Kentucky/Pennsylvania Longrifles.

Good Luck!

Many thanks. Does ownership of a Thompson Center Hawken qualify you for the KRA? I will certainly check out Mr. LaMaster's site.

[A Scanlan]

                                                                                   

[Hlbly]

This can be an expensive learning process. Find a good teacher.

[Daniel Coats]

Apples and oranges I realize but look what a new pickup costs.

[gibster]

If southern rifles are of interest to you, go to the Knoxville show. Lots of great southern rifles and knowledgeable folks willing to share information. It's April 19th and 20th. There are also lots of contemporary artists there as well.

[Von Hayek]

I don't plan on buying anything soon. I have a lot of reading to do. But finding a mentor is good advice, and it doesn't hurt to have this forum.

[Ats5331]

Von Hayek,

There is excellent advice from the gentlemen on this thread, it's a great start.

Speaking of other threads, I would highly recommend checking out Brian LaMaster's new website. His auction is in another thread that I started. It looks like one of his goals with the new site is to create an educational platform for people like yourself who are looking to start collecting.

Brian is a great source of knowledge and gave me some advice when I first started collecting which has helped me in my selection of rifles to purchase. Another tip--when building rifles, it is a completely different ballgame when you can hold an original in your hands!!

Once you get a rifle, I would recommend joining the KRA. The CLA is great, but the KRA Show is probably the best in the country for original Kentucky/Pennsylvania Longrifles.

Good Luck!

Many thanks. Does ownership of a Thompson Center Hawken qualify you for the KRA? I will certainly check out Mr. LaMaster's site.

I do not believe so, Von. KRA is mainly focused on the collection of originals. Here is the site for the organization: https://kentuckyrifleassociation.org/

For reference's sake, here is Brian's website too: https://lamasterarms.com/

[Von Hayek]

I do not believe so, Von. KRA is mainly focused on the collection of originals. Here is the site for the organization: https://kentuckyrifleassociation.org/

For reference's sake, here is Brian's website too: https://lamasterarms.com/

Excellent. Thank you.

I was looking at Mr. LaMaster's site and there are some beautiful guns there. Lots of learning to do. I'm reading Joe Kindig's book right now and I have Mr. Shumway's on the way.

[Tanselman]

The Kindig and Shumway RCA books are great... BUT... they don't represent the vast majority of American longrifles in collections. Kindig was focused more on the high art rifles by the finest "golden age" makers, while Shumway was intrigued by the very earliest "Kentucky" rifles and how they developed. Unless you have deep pockets and don't mind a few costly mistakes along the way [most "reworked," questionable, or faked rifles are from these high-value categories]. I'd think you might be better served to pick up some of the books on the attractive, but not highest art, rifles that are in most collections, and learn from them. Jim Whisker's books, while having a few mixed-up guns at times, are still probably the best low-cost books to learn about the different states' gunmaking, the breadth of styles within those states, the different makers, etc. The lessons hurt a lot less on these more representative guns, and you learn a lot more about what America's frontier rifles were all about. At times the well-used, beat-up working rifles have a lot more American history... I like to think "soul"... in them than the finest "closet queens."

Shelby Gallien