Help in verifying Tower Brown Bess

[Docbooks222]

Newbie here, so forgive my lack of knowledge about this rifle. I inherited this from a reenactor that used it in the 1970's. I would like to sell it, but I'm not sure about a few things.
1) is it even worth anything or should I just put it back in the closet.
2) if it is worth something, can anyone give an idea of its value?
3) depending on any of the opinions to questions 1 & 2, where would it a good place to sell it...here perhaps?
Thanks in advance,
Jim in Leesburg, fl

[Clark Badgett]

What does it say on the side of the barrel?

[Docbooks222]

It's bit hard to make out, but it looks like "DIXll GUN WOI K S 680"

[Docbooks222]

Also, I did see on the top of the barrel "JAPAN" which I guess is probably not a good thing....

[Hungry Horse]

It’s a Brown Bess imported by several companies. They were pretty good quality, but that doesn’t mean much when the gun is as rusted, and neglected, as that one appears to be. I’ve found re-enactors rarely take good care of their firearms since they are primarily noise maker.

Hungry Horse

[Docbooks222]

Thanks for the info....back into the furthest corner of the closet it goes

[Clark Badgett]

Thanks for the info....back into the furthest corner of the closet it goes

Clean it up and shoot it.

[smart dog]

Hi,
It is a Japanese Miroku Bess.  They are not historically correct in any detail but they shoot OK if you don't mind the heavy trigger.  None of the commercially made Besses, Miroku, Pedersoli, or India made are in any way close to what British Ordnance made during the 18th century.  They would all fail British inspection. They are poorly made cartoon versions of the real thing.

dave

[Docbooks222]

Clark, smart and hungry.... been around firearms since 1959 and have owned and shot most every type of modern firearm (remember getting started when you could walk around a gravel pit with a brick of 500 22's and shot at anything and they didn't even call out the swat team... had a little Browning semi-auto 22 for that...wish I still had it), but never shot  a muzzel loader....but I'll look into doing it somewhere in Central FL. Thanks for the replies

[Hawg]

Hi,
It is a Japanese Miroku Bess.  They are not historically correct in any detail but they shoot OK if you don't mind the heavy trigger.  None of the commercially made Besses, Miroku, Pedersoli, or India made are in any way close to what British Ordnance made during the 18th century.  They would all fail British inspection. They are poorly made cartoon versions of the real thing.

dave

Back in the 60's and 70's and maybe into the 80's Miroku would make whatever the customer wanted. Some of it was pretty decent and some of it like Ultra Hi were the bottom of the barrel. The Tower pistols were the bottom of the barrel. I think the Bess's were pretty decent.

[WESTbury]

Look on GUNBROKER for a ballpark value, under Reproduction Brown Bess.

[smart dog]

Hi,
In its current condition with obvious corrosion you might get $500-$600.  Cleaned up and the lock worked over (as they all needed even when brand new) you might get $800-$900 if the bore is good.  An option for you may be to contact Paul Ackermann (www.ackermannarms.com).  I don't know how he is to sell through but he is a prominent supplier of these guns to reenactors.  The Mirokus are in demand and sought after by reenactors because they are one of the better commercial reproductions of the Brown Bess.  They haven't been made since the 1990s I believe so they are getting scarcer.  There are 3 major options for reenactors, an India-made Bess, a Pedersoli reproduction, or a Miroku.  Many believe the Mirokus are the best of the lot although none are historically correct or would ever have passed British ordnance inspections.

dave

[backsplash75]

Look on GUNBROKER for a ballpark value, under Reproduction Brown Bess.

This! Disassemble and green scrubby the rust off the lock and barrel, polish the brass, wipe down the wood with a very light coat of oil and assuming the bore isn't horrible $6-750 should move quickly on gbroker or in the for sale section here once it is cleaned up.

[tooguns]

The deformed trigger guard is a dead giveaway, Dixie from Japan I've had one of then since about 1974. bought it from Dixie for the Bicentennial! Still love it!

[Docbooks222]

Thanks to all for the tips, suggestions and info!!

[Daryl]

Weren't the Miroku's the guns with 2 piece barrels?

[smart dog]

Hi Daryl,
No.  The barrels are the strongest and best you can buy for a Bess repro.  The steel used throughout is very high quality.  Stocks on Miroku Charlevilles and Springfields were made from 2 pieces.

dave

[120RIR]

Despite what some would contend, the Miroku Bess is the best of the bunch for re-working (despite the deformed triggerguard and that almost comical frizzen spring).  The stock retains the general lines better than other makes and can be readily trimmed down.  As noted, the steel is good throughout and the shallow stamping on the lock allows for easy removal and proper re-engraving.  The "Grice 1762" locks on the Pedersoli versions have the design deeply cast and it's very difficult to get it off without drastically thinning the lock plate.  Hence, your more conscientious and authenticity-minded reenactors love to get their hands on these and "de-farb" them.

[Hawg]

Weren't the Miroku's the guns with 2 piece barrels?

The ones made for Ultra HI were two piece.

[smart dog]

Despite what some would contend, the Miroku Bess is the best of the bunch for re-working (despite the deformed triggerguard and that almost comical frizzen spring).  The stock retains the general lines better than other makes and can be readily trimmed down.  As noted, the steel is good throughout and the shallow stamping on the lock allows for easy removal and proper re-engraving.  The "Grice 1762" locks on the Pedersoli versions have the design deeply cast and it's very difficult to get it off without drastically thinning the lock plate.  Hence, your more conscientious and authenticity-minded reenactors love to get their hands on these and "de-farb" them.

Hi,
You are right that many consider the Miroku Besses the best of a very mediocre bunch.  However, you cannot turn any of them into a historically accurate version.  First, the dimensions are considerably smaller than the originals.  Here is a Pedersoli stock compared with a copy from an original short land Bess. The Miroku stock is even more undersized.





The locks on Pedersolis and Mirokus are too small, the stocks much too straight with the wrists too long.  Consequently, you cannot salvage the trigger guards from either because the hole for the wrist plate bolt is too far down the wrist on the Pedersoli and the bow is misshaped on the Miroku.  The barrels are too small at both the breech and muzzle and they do not have a lug to support the forward sling swivel. The only parts I salvage from Pedersolis and Mirokus to build mostly historically accurate guns are the barrels, lock internal parts, pipes, nose cap, trigger plate and trigger, nose cap, and rammer.  Here is a link to a long thread that discusses how we make Beses using some salvaged parts.

   https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-the-kings-muskets-and-a-bit-more.167825/

dave

[Daryl]

Thanks Hawg - I now recall it was the Ultra-High muskets that had 2-piece barrels threaded together with accompanying gaps, now that you mention the name.
This was displayed quite vividly in the Buckskin Report.
That this thread is in Antiques forum, shows confusion with replicas vs. originals and/or outright deception.

[tooguns]

Wasn't the Ultra-Hi Minuteman musket with an octagon to round barrel that was 2 piece?

real beauty ain't she?

[Hawg]

Wasn't the Ultra-Hi Minuteman musket with an octagon to round barrel that was 2 piece?

real beauty ain't she?

Yes, they were two piece.