William Beck Rifle?

[Pro Libertate]

Excited to have what I believe to be a William Beck Hawken-style rifle in my hot little hands! I estimate this fine example to have been built sometime in the mid 1800’s. It’s a .45 caliber.

This was a Gun’s International purchase. I’ll take more photos of it when it arrives and will include them here.

William was the grandnephew of John Phillip Beck, a master gunsmith in Lebanon, PA. A rifle built by J. P. Beck was presented to President George Washington, and is currently exhibited in the Frazier Museum in Kentucky.

[ntqlvr1948]

That's a good looking rifle. Nice find

[Bob Roller]

Good looking rifle and better workmanship and style than a Hawken.Looks more like New York than St.Louis.
Bob Roller

[Eric Kettenburg]

Wow that's a shooter!

[Tanselman]

The stock has survived in superb condition, with all crisp, unworn and undinged edges on cheek, side facings, etc. There's even no wood loss/burn around the percussion snail. If I didn't see the old barrel, I'd think this was a very fine modern-made rifle. I'd like to see a picture of the barrel's muzzle and rifling on this one.

Shelby Gallien

[Pro Libertate]

Wow that's a shooter!

I can only hope! The barrel has very light rust and pitting but the rifling’s strong.

[Pro Libertate]

That's a good looking rifle. Nice find

Thanks! I recently connected with contemporary rifle builder John Beck (one of William’s distant relatives) and I’ve since become very intrigued by the Beck family history.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree with Bob Roller on this one.  I see a rifle from the Eastern seaboard, ie:  New York, Ohio, etc., even South Western Ontario or Upper Canada as it was called in the day, rather than a Hawken rifle.  One has to be careful not to lump half stocked percussion rifles into the Hawken clique.  This rifle stands up fine all by itself and does not benefit from being compared to a Hawken rifle...just my opinions.

[Pro Libertate]

I thought Hawken rifles were highly regarded?

You’ll have to forgive my ignorance here… I’m a new collector and relatively new to muzzleloading in general. It simply appears to me to have the same lines and design elements as those rifles that Samuel Hawken pioneered: the buckhorn rear sights, iron scroll trigger guard, oval barrel key escutcheon, and beavertail cheekpiece are all classic Hawken features, are they not?

[Pro Libertate]

The stock has survived in superb condition, with all crisp, unworn and undinged edges on cheek, side facings, etc. There's even no wood loss/burn around the percussion snail. If I didn't see the old barrel, I'd think this was a very fine modern-made rifle. I'd like to see a picture of the barrel's muzzle and rifling on this one.

Shelby Gallien

This is currently the only picture I have of the muzzle. I’ll take some pictures of the rifling when I have time. I have a camera I can put down the bore.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

All I'm saying is that this rifle more closely emulates features of east coast rifles from the percussion era than it does Hawken rifles.  Those who know me know that I am a huge fan of anything Hawken...I've built around 200 of them myself.  But your rifle, as Bob Roller has pointed out, has finer architecture fit and finish than most Hawken rifle did.  A Lexis is just like a Lada, except for a few minor features.

[Pro Libertate]

I’d be really interested in seeing some of examples of the rifles with which you speak— those that you feel it more closely resembles. I’d also be curious to know if they pre-date Hawken’s rifles or if they may have been influenced by his work.

[Seth Isaacson]

Americans from all over the country made half-stock rifles. If I saw that rifle with no name, my first thought would be that it came out of the northeast or Wisconsin or Michigan. The English and other European gunmakers were also making half-stocks even earlier. Half-stocks in the U.S. seem to gain popularity after the U.S. Model 1803, but still weren't really all that common until the 1840s.

Here is a New York one from Jon Zettler of New York City:


The Hawken is a pretty specific style generally, and reproduction companies copied the name because they were popular. There were some reproductions that were much more like an actual Hawken than the more mainstream T/C guns.

[Pro Libertate]

Thanks for chiming in, Seth. Can you please help me understand precisely what features distinguish a Hawken rifle? Is using the term “Hawken-style” a misnomer?

[Eric Kettenburg]

There's really nothing wrong with throwing the term 'hawken style' out there in relation to this rifle, because *most* people would immediately know the reference and envision the rifle you have, or something like it - a mid century percussion half stock.  You, however, happened to post this on a message board that has for years been something of the pinnacle when it comes to discussion of historical flint and percussion arms, and we're all nitpickers here, so the terminology is being nitpicked!  I'm being jokey btw, I think everyone here recognizes that you've got a great piece in spectacular condition and despite being nitpicky, we all know what you mean.  And yeah, it does look much more refined and like an eastern halfstock than a 'Hawken' or other rifle made for the western trade, but regardless, it's a really nice piece and I'm jealous.  If the bore is rough, I'd get it freshed out and shoot it one way or the other.  That's a hunting rifle begging to get back in action.

[Pro Libertate]

I genuinely appreciate being corrected; my goal here is to learn. Coming from the Muzzleloading Forum, where there's a lot of immature behavior and posturing by self-proclaimed experts who constantly disagree, I find the ALF to be a refreshing change.

I do intend to shoot the rifle in moderation for as long as it is safe to do so and do endeavor to be a good caretaker of it.

[Seth Isaacson]

There were a few varieties of Hawken rifles.

Here is the typical form people are talking about when they think of a Hawken rifle, a fairly stout half-stock percussion rifle around .54 caliber:


There are also full-stock Hawkens:


And there are the more eastern styled Hawkens:


Some notable differences in your rifle include the more complicated manner in which the lock is inlet, the spurred trigger guard, and the general proportions.

[Bob Roller]

I genuinely appreciate being corrected; my goal here is to learn. Coming from the Muzzleloading Forum, where there's a lot of immature behavior and posturing by self-proclaimed experts who constantly disagree, I find the ALF to be a refreshing change.

I do intend to shoot the rifle in moderation for as long as it is safe to do so and do endeavor to be a good caretaker of it.

Check it with a rod to see if it's loaded.A lot of these old ones are loaded and I have found them in antique shops that were.
Bob Roller

[Pro Libertate]

Certainly! Always a good idea, Bob. I’ll be giving it a thorough inspection and rigorous cleaning prior to any firing.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Now that I've shot my mouth off, I feel obligated to answer some of your questions, though because of the complexity of the subject, this site is not the place for such detail.  Forgive me if I have come across as one of those from a different forum who has to have the last word and is negative about everything.  That is not my wish or goal.
You are correct that your rifle has many features that are similar to rifles from the Hawken shop and I can see how one might draw comparisons. It has been suggested by some students, collectors, and builders, that Hawekn rifles borrow heavily from English sporting rifle tradition, ie:  scroll shotgun style trigger guard, captured double barrel slides, escutcheons around the keys, patent hooked standing breech tang and plug, percussion snail bolster and nipple seat, sheet metal under-rib and rod thimbles, beavertail cheek piece, and so on.
But generally, Hawken rifles have heavier barrels and larger calibre, sheet iron or cast nose piece, plain maple stock wood, two captured barrel slides with iron escutcheon plates, gentle purch belly to the underside of the buttstock, simple scroll trigger guard, less definition around the lock panel, iron lock bolt escutcheon, entirely different percussion lock plate, deep crescent iron butt plate with less of a heel extension.
Hawken rifles and your fine piece, are almost contemporary.  I suggest though, that your rifle antedates the Hawken mountain rifle, and I feel that Mr. Beck, the maker, did not draw heavily if at all from the Hawken design.  Percussion half stocked rifles of the middle of the 19th C, in North America, I believe were far more influenced by English and even Continental firearms, many of which were being imported and sold in gun shops and hardware stores across the continent, in competition with the hundreds of American gunsmiths who were turning them out by the thousands.
I and many others who frequent this site, have invested a lot of money and time in order to study particular styles, and get it right when we replicate or re-create these interesting firearms.  So as Eric has so acutely and gently has said, it is just an old geezer nit-picking when someone throws out a catch-all phrase such as "Hawken styled" to describe your wonderful rifle.  Thank you for posting pictures of it.

[Pro Libertate]

Thank you for your detailed response, Mr. Sapergia. I appreciate your insights and the effort to address my questions despite the complexity of the subject. I was not offended in the least by your earlier remarks; my whole point in joining the forum was to acquire knowledge.

Your point about my rifle postdating the Hawken mountain rifle and being influenced more by English and Continental firearms is well taken. It’s clear that there was a wide variety of influences on firearm designs in North America during the 19th century.

I appreciate the dedication and investment that you and others have put into studying and replicating these styles accurately. Eric’s point about the use of the term “Hawken styled” being a bit broad is duly noted, and I won’t be so quick to throw around the term in the future. Thanks again for your thoughtful analysis and for acknowledging my rifle’s qualities.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

PL:  I used the word antedate rather than predate to describe your rifle, meaning your rifle was almost certainly built after the heyday of the Hawken rifle, actually closer to the cartridge era.  At least that is the impression I get, judging by the use of that style of lockplate and the curvature of the buttplate in addition to the use of the cast trigger guard.  But it is possible too that there may have been some overlap of time, since Hawken rifles were produced for a considerable length of time.

[Seth Isaacson]

Antedate is a synonym for predate. "Ante" meaning "before" as in the term "antebellum" meaning "before the war," so in this instance Taylor is meaning to say your rifle postdate's the Hawken rifle which I would definitely agree with.

[Pro Libertate]

Thanks for the clarification. The English language can be rather confusing, can’t it? In any case, I understand what was intended; I just misspoke. Considering William Beck was born in 1817 and the first Hawken rifle appeared around 1823, it’s highly unlikely he was making rifles (at least of this quality) at six years old. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Antedate is a synonym for predate. "Ante" meaning "before" as in the term "antebellum" meaning "before the war," so in this instance Taylor is meaning to say your rifle postdate's the Hawken rifle which I would definitely agree with.

Seth, you are quite right, and I was the one confused.  Thanks for the clarification.