Author Topic: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got  (Read 7934 times)

Offline gibster

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Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« on: February 10, 2025, 06:30:22 PM »
It's been a little while since I have seen a Southern Mountain Rifle show up on the forum so I figured I would hopefully start a new trend. I've had this rifle for a while and it is what some would probably call a poor boy. No butt plate or entry thimble. It had been re-converted to flint sometime before I bought it.  The barrel has been shortened twice in it's working life. It shows quite a bit of saddle wear as it is worn through the fore end and you can see the ram rod.  The rifle isn't signed, so no idea who made it.  Let me know your thoughts on where you think it may have been made and why you came to that conclusion.  I have thought SW Va. but have been told it could be an early Deep River School rifle as well from NC.  You can click on the pictures to enlarge them.
I know that there are other SMR rifles out there. Rifles like this are what trips my trigger so to speak. So let's see them.

































Offline JTR

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2025, 06:53:55 PM »
Nice rifle, and great pictures as well!
I have a couple and will try to get some decent pics to post.
John
John Robbins

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2025, 10:57:23 PM »
 8) 8)



.... Gettin' a little anxious for the Knoxville show, aren't we Eric...??? ... HaHaHa... My favorite guns too....!!! ... I haven't seen a new discovery in a while myself... however,... here are a few from the show a couple years back... all Lawing rifles... I think you had one or two in this group, and I had a Wm. Lawing in there.. all in all we had 12 Lawing rifles in the same room at once.... Oh, yeah... I did see a nice Phillip Gillespie rifle a while back, but couldn't talk the owner out of it, and forgot to take photos... !!!... see you in Knoxville town in a couple months... !! ... regards,... Cades Cove Fiddler...

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2025, 11:18:24 PM »
Yup, you caught me. I am getting a little anxious for the Knoxville show.  I remember seeing all those Lawing rifles together. That was a sight to behold.  I still have the 2 that I are in the pictures. I did manage to pick up a Wm. Beals since we have seen each other. I think you will like it. I'll bring it to the show. But it will come back home with me afterwards.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2025, 01:50:23 AM »
   Gibster be careful ole C.C.F. has a friend ( ? ) that can work magic on getting him a gun he likes...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2025, 01:57:09 AM by oldtravler61 »

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2025, 02:39:38 AM »
 ;) ;)... HaHaHa... see what you can do, Mike... !!!

Offline AZshot

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2025, 03:41:27 AM »
Here are some.  Hope to go to that show.


Offline jdm

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2025, 04:02:51 AM »
Eric,I was told this one is from the Piedmont area of Nortn Carolina.









« Last Edit: February 11, 2025, 04:17:39 AM by jdm »
JIM

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2025, 05:40:15 AM »
AZ Shot - hose are some nice rifles. What is the 3rd one down from the top?
Jim - Your rifle has some similarities to mine.  They could both be from the Deep River School in NC.  There were several good makers there. The guard on mine has a pretty long bow which is where I keep coming back to a possible Virginia rifle.  But who knows.  Maybe Gerald will chime in and give his opinion.  He's forgotten more than I will ever know on southern rifles.

Offline AZshot

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2025, 03:49:54 AM »

Offline mbriggs

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2025, 05:32:32 PM »
Hi Gibster,

Thank you for posting photos of your wonderful poor-boy rifle. I love the architecture and lines of this old rifle. It was not fancy, but had style and got the job done.

Fortunately, I live in what Bill Ivey termed the "Early Deep River School" in his book. I own three early Guilford County rifles from this school.

When I look for Longrifles from this school I look for the lower incised carved lines from the butt plate to the trigger guard. This is usually repeated all the way out the forestock from the ramrod entry pipe to the nose cap.

Here are some photos of my "Early Deep River School" longrifle signed by David Grose.
   


Here is the lower butt stock.



Here is the forestock.



Here is a wonderful longrifle by Craft Jackson. This longrifle has many wonderful features that no other rifle from this school I have seen.





Here is the forestock.



Gadroon engraving on top of the butt plate.



Gadroon engraving on the ramrod pipes and chevrons on the nose cap.



Last but not least, is the rifle I attribute to Matthew Osborne. He moved to Centre Meeting House from Pennsylvania in 1753. This was right on the Guilford - Randolph County line, right in the middle of the Early Deep River School. He made longrifles for his Quaker neighbors. In 1781, he learned that three of his neighbors had used the rifles he made for them at the Battle of Guilford Court House. According to the Centre Meeting House church minutes, he repurchased those three rifles and broke the stocks against a tree.  He died in 1783 and is buried at the church.

Bill Ivey and I agree this is the oldest known example from the "Early Deep River School."



It is the oldest rifle in my collection.




Here is the cheek-rest side with relief carving.



These are the features I look for on a longrifle from this school.  Thanks for posting your rifle. I hope to see you in Knoxville.

Thanks,

Michael


C. Michael Briggs

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2025, 05:43:23 PM »
Those are some great rifles Michael. Thanks for posting them.  Great history with the Matthew Osbourn rifle.  Looking forward to seeing you in Knoxville.

Offline Ats5331

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2025, 06:05:33 PM »
Might not be the place, but since we are discussing SMRs here...

Does anybody have or know of rifles made in the Sumner County, TN area?

I have ancestry out of that area and am always curious to see what the rifles could've looked like that they carried!

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2025, 06:45:31 AM »
Michael,

Are there any signed Matthew Osborne rifles in collectors' circles that help support the Osborne attribution? The gun has always seemed to me like it might be an early Jacob Crider based on its stock architecture and cheekpiece, patchbox, plus somewhat strong separation between wrist and comb. The butt carving, while both have a large central "C" scroll, is different, but 20 years can change some details in a gunsmith's work. Just curious, since I've always wondered about the rifle attributed to Osborne, and wondered if not a Crider, then who?

Shelby Gallien

Offline whetrock

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2025, 07:35:48 PM »

Gibster, That's a great rifle. How long is the barrel now? and how long do you think it was before being cut?
Thanks.

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2025, 07:43:32 PM »
Thanks Whetrock. The current length of the barrel is 45 1/8". Based on where the original barrel pins were and where they are now, it was about 1 3/4" longer. So originally, it looks to have had about a 47" barrel.

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2025, 05:29:20 PM »
I’m trying to post some photos of a rifle I found yesterday, but can’t seem to get them to load. Is anyone else having difficulty with photos?  I suspect this rifle was produced in North Carolina, hopefully I can get the photos loaded soon.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 01:49:33 PM by 1sogdusm »

Offline JTR

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2025, 05:44:54 PM »
I’m trying to post some photos of a rifle I found yesterday, but can’t seem to get them to load. Is anyone else having difficulty with photos?  I suspect this rifle was produced in North Carolina, hopefully I can get the photos loaded soon.
Same problem for me. I tied to upload some pics last night, then again this morning, but no luck.
John Robbins

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2025, 12:39:10 AM »
Finally got these to load, any help on ID would be greatly appreciated. Barrel is about 42”, no entry thimble.














« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 01:05:57 AM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2025, 12:40:53 AM »







Offline 1sogdusm

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2025, 12:44:13 AM »





« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 04:50:36 PM by 1sogdusm »

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2025, 07:13:26 PM »
Nice looking rifle that looks to have survived in great shape. Can't help with the ID though. 

Offline cshirsch

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2025, 05:45:40 PM »
I give up!  I have numerous rifles that fit in here but my images will not post. 

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2025, 06:01:50 PM »
Chris - Don't give up. No idea what the problem is with posting pictures right now. I have seen a few of your posts in the past showing some great southern rifles and would enjoy seeing them again, and more. Sooner or later the issue with posting pictures will be resolved. Hope so anyway.

Offline gibster

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Re: Southern Mountain Rifle - Show me what you got
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2025, 06:11:21 PM »
Here is another rifle that I have the pleasure of being the caretaker of. I showed i to Dave Byrd shortly after I got it and he seemed to think that it was a Beals rifle.  This one is still original flint with original barrel length.