Germanic lock

[Jim Kibler]

We've had MANY requests for a Germanic lock, so I've begun modeling one.  Here's the start...  for those of you unfamiliar, this is  3d virtual model of what the lock may end up looking like.  Our machines will use this model to duplicate the parts.  So this isn't just some AI created image.  This is about two weeks worth of work so far.  Not easy parts to design and create.

Things may get adjusted a bit, but this is largely what it will look like. This represents locks used in the Colonies during the 1760's through the 1770's. It could have been used a little later, but into the 1780's some features changed or became a little more watered down. I may change a few things on another version so it would fit a little later date as well. If you have any questions, let me know. Oh... These designs and forms are pulled from originals of the period. Some shapes may be a little different than you are used to seeing with other modern examples. So, as always study original work and don't become too diluted with less than ideal modern interpretations.

[bob in the woods]

Fantastic !   Now I have to ask ;  what gun are you planning next that will use it  ? 

[t.caster]

Cool, Jim. Can you do the sear spring screw with a blind hole?

[Jim Kibler]

I'm not sure what we'll be using it on at this point.  Lots of options!

I like the idea of a blind sear spring thread.  We do this on our round-faced locks so it's not a problem.

Yeah, this model doesn't have a pan bridle.  I'll probably make a version with a bridle as well. 

[Telgan]

I hope you will still do this version with No pan bridle - What is the approx. length of this lock?

[Jim Kibler]

Yeah, we'll definitely have a version without the pan bridle.  It's 5.25" long

[Scota4570]

Maybe make a blank builder's plate as an option? 

I am working on a plans to do another Armstrong rifle.  IF an Armstrong plate is not an option then the blank plate will do.

Is the pan a separate part like the Siler?  I'd much rather modify a Kibler lock than make one from scratch or use cast Siler style parts. 

Your frizzen is closer to what I want too.  The large cut out at the base of the frizzen surface, on the Siler,  is not what I want. 

[StevenV]

Thank You Jim, I could see me wanting and using that lock!!      Steve

[Bob Gerard]

Another fine, high quality option for builders. I can see these giving Large Siler locks a run for the money!

[Ben I. Voss]

Awesome! The more variety of high quality locks, the better. Keep up the great work, Mr. Kibler!

[Jakob]

I've looked at a lot of German guns and I still don't think I've seen one with that type of lock plate. (With the  grooves at the tail).
I like that it doesnt have a bridle, but getting rid of the grooves would make it a far more flexible lock design.

[Jim Kibler]

I've looked at a lot of German guns and I still don't think I've seen one with that type of lock plate. (With the  grooves at the tail).
I like that it doesnt have a bridle, but getting rid of the grooves would make it a far more flexible lock design.

There were lots of Germanic (continental) locks with the molding lines on the tail of the plate.  I can post some if you would like or just dig a little on the web and you'll find examples.  The majority of Germanic locks used on longrifles had this molding, but as suggested, not all.

All this comes down to preference.  Many don't have the ability to file these moldings in well, so they've been included.

[Jakob]

Hah, actually, just remember this one:
https://www.ilovemuzzleloading.com/blog/revolutionary-war-era-german-flintlock-jaeger-rifle-rare-original-hessian-muzzleloader
So, yeah,I have seen one.

I just think you are eliminating a lot of jaeger designs with that lock, but then again, you're also called it "Germanic" and not "German", so I guess that's fair.
I just see the potential it would have without the molding lines.

[Martin S.]

Will there be a roller on the frizzen spring?  Or is that not historically correct?

I've seen locks with and without rollers, and I have wondered if that was a time period characteristic or a characteristic based on the type of lock.

Just curious and trying to learn why some locks have rollers and some don't.

[Jdbeck]

I definitely seen some Germanic CNC locks by Chris Lubaugh and Chris Evard posted on this forum.  How are you gonna be making your springs?

Soon enough will have various RCA rifles coming out of the Kibler factory🤣
Let me get a pre-order on the Lion and Lamb.

[Jim Kibler]

Will there be a roller on the frizzen spring?  Or is that not historically correct?

I've seen locks with and without rollers, and I have wondered if that was a time period characteristic or a characteristic based on the type of lock.

Just curious and trying to learn why some locks have rollers and some don't.

Rollers aren't too common on Germanic locks and if you were to find them, it would be a later period than this lock.

[Jim Kibler]

I definitely seen some Germanic CNC locks by Chris Lubaugh and Chris Evard posted on this forum.  How are you gonna be making your springs?

Springs will be machined just like all the thousands of other locks we produce.  I feel this results in the highest quality spring possible. 

[Jdbeck]

I definitely seen some Germanic CNC locks by Chris Lubaugh and Chris Evard posted on this forum.  How are you gonna be making your springs?

Springs will be machined just like all the thousands of other locks we produce.  I feel this results in the highest quality spring possible.

Now how bout that Lion and Lamb rifle? 🤣🤣🤣

[Jim Kibler]

[Leatherbark]

It would be cool if it could be fitted into a Siler mortice.

Bob

[Jdbeck]

It definitely reminds me of the lock of Christians Oerter signed rifle from 1774.

[Pukka Bundook]

What I Would like to see  Jim, is an earlier lock.

The type used bu Michael Wagner, (Cronach) or Paul Poser.
No-one makes a lock of this type.

The above lock looks very well designed, but very  close to a Siler for me... angled tail and all.

All the best,
Rich.

[Martin S.]

Will there be a roller on the frizzen spring?  Or is that not historically correct?

I've seen locks with and without rollers, and I have wondered if that was a time period characteristic or a characteristic based on the type of lock.

Just curious and trying to learn why some locks have rollers and some don't.

Rollers aren't too common on Germanic locks and if you were to find them, it would be a later period than this lock.

Thank you for the explanation.

[Jim Kibler]

Jdbeck,

Thanks for posting pictures of the Oerter rifle.  I wasn't looking at this lock when designing it, but it's nice to see the similarities!  I do think it falls in the realm of some of the Christians Spring work.

After I get it completely designed, I'll SLA 3d print all the parts and check things out.  It's sometimes hard to judge size, shape etc. when just looking at a computer screen.  Right now, I'm contemplating making the pan a little smaller (maybe 5-10%).  The good thing is that things are completely adjustable at this stage.

Thanks
Jim

[Jim Kibler]

What I Would like to see  Jim, is an earlier lock.

The type used bu Michael Wagner, (Cronach) or Paul Poser.
No-one makes a lock of this type.

The above lock looks very well designed, but very  close to a Siler for me... angled tail and all.

All the best,
Rich.

I love Michael Wagner's work, but there just isn't a big market for this type lock.  Money gets in the way of everything!