Kibler 16 gauge fowler-round balls ?

[bob in the woods]

I'm curious if anyone here has this gun in 16 gauge and has shot round balls . I see that Jim Kibler has a note on his website stating that the 20 bore is recommended for ball shooting. I'm thinking that the light weight barrel may affect the accuracy potential ?  My preference leans to the larger bores, so the 16 g is calling to me 

[Tumbledown]

Jim has said round ball in his 16ga should be fine if one *doesn't* goes go crazy on the powder charge.

[whetrock]

Jim has said round ball in his 16ga should be fine if one goes go crazy on the powder charge.

Tumbledown,
Can you (or Jim) clarify this? If one does or does not go crazy on the powder charge? (Seems like "does not go crazy" would fit the logic better, but that's not what you wrote.)
What sort of range in volume are you talking about?

[smylee grouch]

What is the actual bore size of this 16? 660???

[Tumbledown]

Jim has said round ball in his 16ga should be fine if one goes go crazy on the powder charge.

Tumbledown,
Can you (or Jim) clarify this? If one does or does not go crazy on the powder charge? (Seems like "does not go crazy" would fit the logic better, but that's not what you wrote.)
What sort of range in volume are you talking about?

Good catch, edited to add DOESN'T.

I don't recall the load data. This has been discussed on this and another forum, that's all I  remember.

[alacran]

What is the actual bore size of this 16? 660???

.660 is 16 gauge. I have a Getz 30 inch marked 16 gauge and the bore is .660. I have used .648 balls as well as .625 balls and pathed accordingly.

[Austin]

.648 with blue jeans patch works good

[Hungry Horse]

 If I were going to shoot a round ball in a shotgun barrel that was on the light side I would opt for 1F powder and wading rather than patching. You might be surprised how accurate it can be. A friend showed up at a tradegun match with a .69 cal. French musket replica, and was shooting this type of load. We laughed at his because the guns report was so much quieter than everybody else’s gun. He beat us like a red headed stepchild shooting round balls, then turned around and spanked us again with shot, shooting the same 1F load. And, he didn’t have a soar shoulder at the end of the day either.

Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

I'd think all your shooting with round ball, could be managed with up to 100 to 110gr. Bob.
Those loads should produce under 6,000psi. with a slightly less than 1 ounce ball. I would suggest, a 1 1/8oz. shot load will produce more pressure.
Also, I think that around 85gr. 2F might be all you need for a ball load.

[Tumbledown]

I found a post where Jim elaborates:

"It has nothing to do with a 16 gauge not being able to shoot a round ball. The 20 gauge is just better for this since it has a thicker barrel wall resulting in better accuracy and less chance of issues should some bozo try to get center fire ballistics out of the thing"

[alacran]

I found a post where Jim elaborates:

"It has nothing to do with a 16 gauge not being able to shoot a round ball. The 20 gauge is just better for this since it has a thicker barrel wall resulting in better accuracy and less chance of issues should some bozo try to get center fire ballistics out of the thing"

So, in other words the profile for the 16 gauge is the same as the profile for the 20 gauge.  That alone would have me looking at the 16 gauge. What Daryl says is right on. I would be more afraid of a Bozo short starting or obstructing the barrel than trying to get center fire ballistics out of the thing.

[whetrock]

I found a post where Jim elaborates:

"It has nothing to do with a 16 gauge not being able to shoot a round ball. The 20 gauge is just better for this since it has a thicker barrel wall resulting in better accuracy and less chance of issues should some bozo try to get center fire ballistics out of the thing"

So, in other words the profile for the 16 gauge is the same as the profile for the 20 gauge.  That alone would have me looking at the 16 gauge. What Daryl says is right on. I would be more afraid of a Bozo short starting or obstructing the barrel than trying to get center fire ballistics out of the thing.

Alacran,
I was a little confused with what you wrote. See the part I underlined. Are you saying that you would choose the 16 because it would be a stronger barrel? If that's what you mean, isn't it the other way around? The 20 is a smaller bore and so it would be stronger in the same profile. Did I miss understood what you were saying?
Or maybe you were saying you would choose the 16 because it would be a lighter barrel, easier to carry?

[alacran]

I would choose the 16 gauge not just because it would be slightly lighter, but the barrel would look more like originals. Most period fowlers had barrels whose muzzles were 1/16 inch thick or less. I have a 20 gauge fowler with a Curly Gostomski barrel the thickness of the barrel at the muzzle is about 1/16 of an inch. It is 42 inches long and makes for a very light gun. With all due respect to Mr. Kibler stating that the thicker barrel makes it more accurate, is bunk.
My Escopeta has a 16 gauge barrel marked.660. It is octagon to round. It is 1-inch across the flats at the breech it is about 1/16 thick at the muzzle.
The barrel is 30 inches long. It weighs under 6 lbs. The biggest limiting factor for the amount of powder I use is the recoil.

The target on the left and the one on the right were shot with .648 balls and 90 grains of Goex 2f. The one on the left was shot without a rear sight the one on the right was shot with a rudimentary rear sight. Both shot offhand at 25 yards.

[Daryl]

Turning that Mexican smoothie into a smooth rifle sure paid off. WOW! & with that stubby barrel too.

[alacran]

Not Mexican Daryl. It is Catalán.

[Daryl]

There ya go, I stand corrected. I'd thought the  Escopeta's were Mexican.

[Enfield]

I have a Fowler .16 from Jim and a custom .650 mould an use very strong Patches (2-3 light punches with a Wood Hammer). 84gn Swiss no.2
Thats a strong load but on a good day I bing them all togerher 2,5-3 Inch in 50 Yards (sitting)

[RandyLD]

Enfield have you or anyone else measured the bore on Jim’s 16 gauge mine shows .672 to .673 as best as I can tell

[rich pierce]

One could always buy one with 2 different barrels. Parts are interchangeable, I hear.

[Daryl]

When shooting shot, the 16 bore would be much preferred.(by me) I think for ball as well. 16 was the lightest "calibre" suggested as being suitable for dangerous game(in India) by Forsyth. His little book is why I had Taylor build me a 14 bore rifle. It "staggers" moose.

[Enfield]

Enfield have you or anyone else measured the bore on Jim’s 16 gauge mine shows .672 to .673 as best as I can tell

just measured my .16 Gau... something between .664-.666

[RandyLD]

Thanks

[Daryl]

Nominally, the standard 16 bore is .662". A pure lead ball that size, weighs 1 ounce, or 1/16th of a pound. 7000 divided by 16 = 437.5 gr.
20 bore is .615 (not .620") and a pure lead ball that size is 1/10th of a pound. 7000 divided by 20 = 350gr.
Of course to load into the bore and be "clean shooting", one needs a smaller ball and lubricated patch making a snug combination.
Some fellows do well with loose combinations of ball and patch while others do well with bare balls and wads of some other materials.
In the post about RB accuracy from smoothbores, of the picture with 4 targets, the far right target 3/8" or so (4 shots only) than the others, no
patch was used around the .595" ball, but just a wad below the ball and one over, ie: "bare ball".